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| 1 | IN THE COMMON PLEAS COURT OF MERCER COUNTY, OHIO | ||
| 2 | JUVENILE DIVISION | ||
| 3 | PAUL FISHER, : | ||
| 4 | PLAINTIFF, : CASE NO. 4-2003-030 | ||
| 5 | vs. : | ||
| 6 | EMMA HASENJAGER, : Copy | ||
| 7 | DEFENDANT, : MOTIONS HEARING | ||
| 8 | |||
| 9 | BE IT REMEMBERED that upon the hearing of the | ||
| 10 | above-entitled matter held in the Juvenile Division of | ||
| 11 | the Mercer County Common Pleas Court before the | ||
| 12 | Honorable Mary Pat Zitter, Judge, commencing on March | ||
| 13 | 21, 2005, and concluding on March 21, 2005, the | ||
| 14 | following proceedings were had. | ||
| 15 | |||
| 16 | |||
| 17 | APPEARANCES: | ||
| 18 | FOR THE PLAINTIFF: Peter R. Van Arsdel | ||
| 19 | 118 West Market Street | ||
| 19 | Celina, Ohio 45822 | ||
| 20 | |||
| 21 | FOR THE DEFENDANT: Thomas E. Luth | ||
| 21 | Meikle, Tesno & Luth | ||
| 22 | P.O. Box 485 | ||
| 22 | Celina, Ohio 45822 | ||
| 23 | |||
| 24 | |||
| 25 | |||
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| 1 | WITNESS INDEX: | ||
| 2 | WITNESS: DX: CX: RDX:RCX: RDX: | ||
| 3 | Bobbie Fledderjohann 4 7 14 16 22 | ||
| 4 | Emma Hasenjager 23 41 48 51 | ||
| 5 | Paul Fisher 55 69 | ||
| 6 | Emma Hasenjager 81 83 | ||
| 7 | |||
| 8 | EXHIBIT INDEX: | ||
| 9 | DEFENDANT'S EXHIBITS rD: ADM: | ||
| 10 | A Standing visitation schedule 52 80 | ||
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| 1 | sworn, as hereinafter certified, was examined and | Baliff | |
| 2 | testified as follows: | ||
| 3 | THE BAILIFF: Please be seated. | Baliff | |
| 4 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| 5 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Your Honor, Mr. Luth and I | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | would agree to a separation of witnesses, your Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | Sorry, I was interrupted by the bailiff, but none of | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | these people are going to testify. | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | THE COURT: None of these people are going | Zitter | |
| 10 | to testify. Is that what you said? | Zitter | |
| 11 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: That's correct. We've | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | agreed to a separation of witnesses. | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | THE COURT: All right. Thank you. If none | Zitter | |
| 14 | of them are going to testify, you may remain in the | Zitter | |
| 15 | room. All right. Thank you. Ms. Fledderjohann, if | Zitter | |
| 16 | you're ready, Mr. Luth. | Zitter | |
| 17 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 18 | DIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 19 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 20 | Q | Would you please state your name for the court? | Luth |
| 21 | A | Bobbie Fledderjohann. | Fledderjohann |
| 22 | Q | Are you employed, ma'am? | Luth |
| 23 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 24 | Q | How are you employed? | Luth |
| 25 | A | I'm the clinical director at Gateway Outreach. | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | Q | And what are your duties there? | Luth |
| 2 | A | I'm a counselor, and I'm in charge of the other | Fledderjohann |
| 3 | counselors. | Fledderjohann | |
| 4 | Q | What kind of education and training do you have | Luth |
| 5 | as a counselor? | Luth | |
| 6 | A | I have my masters in mental health counseling. I | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | have credential to do alcohol-drug counseling. I'm | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | licensed to do mental health counseling. | Fledderjohann | |
| 9 | Q | Okay. In your capacity as a counselor, are you | Luth |
| 10 | acquainted with my client, Emma Hasenjager? | Luth | |
| 11 | A | Yes, I am. | Fledderjohann |
| 12 | Q | And when's the -- have you counseled with Emma | Luth |
| 13 | within the last three to four months? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | Yes, I have. | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | Q | Approximately how many times have you seen her? | Luth |
| 16 | A | Probably every other week to every three weeks. | Fledderjohann |
| 17 | Q | And you'd also counseled with Emma on previous | Luth |
| 18 | occasions, have you not? | Luth | |
| 19 | A | Yes I I have. | Fledderjohann |
| 20 | Q | Okay. During this most recent series of | Luth |
| 21 | sessions, what have you discovered about Emma? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | Well, I did an assessment on her to see if she | Fledderjohann |
| 23 | had an alcohol or drug problem, and I diagnosed her with | Fledderjohann | |
| 24 | chemical abuse and didn't have enough criteria map for | Fledderjohann | |
| 25 | chemical dependence. | Fledderjohann | |
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| 1 | Q | All right. Does she have that problem under | Luth |
| 2 | control? | Luth | |
| 3 | A | She seems to. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | Okay. Is she still counseling with you? | Luth |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 6 | Q | Okay. Is she receiving any kind of treatment | Luth |
| 7 | from you? | Luth | |
| 8 | A | Well, she's still coming in. We have a treatment | Fledderjohann |
| 9 | plan. | Fledderjohann | |
| 10 | Q | Okay. It's my understanding that you recently | Luth |
| 11 | had released her from further -- | Luth | |
| 12 | A | And I told her that she could come back on her | Fledderjohann |
| 13 | own if she wanted, but for court purposes, she was done. | Fledderjohann | |
| 14 | Q | Is her status of any concern in terms of | Luth |
| 15 | parenting abilities? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 17 | Q | So you don't see any problems that she has that | Luth |
| 18 | would interfere with her ability to be a good parent? | Luth | |
| 19 | A | No, I don't. | Fledderjohann |
| 20 | MR. LUTH: I have nothing further. | Luth | |
| 21 | THE COURT: Thank you. Ms. Fledderjohann, | Zitter | |
| 22 | Mr. Van Arsdel may have some questions for you. | Zitter | |
| 23 | THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann | |
| 24 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 25 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
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| 1 | CROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 2 | BY MR. VANARSDEL: | ||
| 3 | Q | You indicated that Ms. Hasenjager was diagnosed | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | with-- | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | Chemical abuse. | Fledderjohann |
| 6 | Q | -- chemical abuse? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 8 | Q | Was that specifically alcohol? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | That was marijuana. | Fledderjohann |
| 10 | Q | Was there any finding of any alcohol abuse? | Van Arsdel |
| 11 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 12 | Q | So the chemical abuse was based just upon the | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | marijuana or marijuana and alcohol? | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | Both. | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | Q | Both? | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 17 | Q | And was that relatively recent? | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | A | The marijuana was, I think, in 2003-2004. The | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | alcohol was recent. | Fledderjohann | |
| 20 | Q | Was the evaluation that you did, was that court | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | ordered or was that voluntary? | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | The first -- which evaluation? | Fledderjohann |
| 23 | Q | I thought you just did one for the alcohol | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | dependence -- or, alcohol abuse -- excuse me -- chemical | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | abuse. | Van Arsdel | |
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| 1 | A | Okay. The alcohol abuse was -- she came out as | Fledderjohann |
| 2 | asked by her attorney. Well, she and her attorney | Fledderjohann | |
| 3 | talked, and she decided to come out, so it wasn't court | Fledderjohann | |
| 4 | ordered. | Fledderjohann | |
| 5 | Q | Are you aware of any court-ordered alcohol | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | evaluation requirement? | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | No, I'm not. | Fledderjohann |
| 8 | Q | Okay. The marijuana abuse was done on her own | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | previously? | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | I think that that was referred in, also, from her | Fledderjohann |
| 11 | attorney. No, I think that may have come from the | Fledderjohann | |
| 12 | court. | Fledderjohann | |
| 13 | Q | Were those two separate incidences? | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | A | Yeah, the 2003-2004, I can't remember if she came | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | in at the end of 2003 and it went into 2004. I'm not | Fledderjohann | |
| 16 | sure about the dates, but that was the first one and | Fledderjohann | |
| 17 | that was for the marijuana. | Fledderjohann | |
| 18 | Q | And then in 2005? | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | A | Just recently she came in for the alcohol. | Fledderjohann |
| 20 | Q | For the alcohol. Is there a set of criteria that | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | you used in diagnosing the chemical abuse? | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | Uh-huh, yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 23 | Q | Do you know some of those factors or all of those | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | factors that you used in evaluating that diagnosis? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | For the chemical abuse? | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | Q | Yes. | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | You would look at their failure to fulfill a | Fledderjohann |
| 3 | major role obligation would be one. You would look at | Fledderjohann | |
| 4 | if she had -- if the person, not Emma -- but if the | Fledderjohann | |
| 5 | person had difficulty with legal problems as a result. | Fledderjohann | |
| 6 | It would have to be recurrent though. All of your | Fledderjohann | |
| 7 | criteria for chemical abuse says it has to be recurrent. | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | It can't just be one time. Okay? It has to continue to | Fledderjohann | |
| 9 | reoccur. | Fledderjohann | |
| 10 | So there's four of them. The third one is | Fledderjohann | |
| 11 | using in situations which are physically hazardous. And | Fledderjohann | |
| 12 | the fourth one is using despite having interpersonal | Fledderjohann | |
| 13 | problems from the use. | Fledderjohann | |
| 14 | Q | Do you recall which of those factors that she | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | met? | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | A | She only needs one. | Fledderjohann |
| 17 | Q | You only need one to be diagnosed as -- | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | A | Right. | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | Q | -- abuse? | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 21 | Q | Do you recall which one that she met in the | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | marijuana? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | I do not recall. | Fledderjohann |
| 24 | Q | Or the alcohol? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | A | No, I don't recall. | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | Q | Do you recall as to whether or not it was a | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | recurring situation with either? | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | A | It would have to be recurring. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | It has to be recurring in any situation? | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 6 | Q | So you counseled her in '05 for an alcohol abuse, | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | and that had occurred previously? That was a recurring | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | of that? | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 10 | Q | The abuse or just any chemical abuse? | Van Arsdel |
| 11 | A | Any chemical abuse. | Fledderjohann |
| 12 | Q | Okay. | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | A | It doesn't differentiate between marijuana, | Fledderjohann |
| 14 | alcohol, cocaine. I mean, there's no differentiation. | Fledderjohann | |
| 15 | It's the same criteria for whatever drug it is. | Fledderjohann | |
| 16 | Q | Did Miss Hasenjager indicate to you that she was | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | involved in an automobile accident? | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | Yes, she did. | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | Q | Did she indicate that she had used alcohol prior | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | to that accident? | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 22 | Q | Did she indicate that she might have used alcohol | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | to a large extent or a small extent? Did she quantify | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | that? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | Q | Did she indicate that that alcohol was a factor | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | in the accident? | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | Did she indicate what time of day that that | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | accident occurred? | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | I know it was in the evening or late at night. I | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | don't know. I think after midnight. | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | Q | Did she indicate any concern about being able to | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | care for her child while she was under the influence or | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | using any chemicals? | Van Arsdel | |
| 11 | A | That night? | Fledderjohann |
| 12 | Q | Correct -- or that morning, that night. | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | A | I didn't think at the time of the accident that | Fledderjohann |
| 14 | she was -- that she was caring for her child. | Fledderjohann | |
| 15 | Q | Did she indicate any concerns about caring for | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | her child after the accident? | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. | Fledderjohann |
| 18 | Q | I'd have to ask you to assume something that I | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | think that the record would probably -- let's just say | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | assume that she was to pick up her child within several | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | hours of the accident. Did she voice any concern about | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | being able to care for her child -- that's what I mean | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | by after the accident -- as a result of chemical use? | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | A | No. I think that when we look at alcohol, we | Fledderjohann |
| 25 | look at how many hours -- I mean, no, she did not, no. | Fledderjohann | |
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| 1 | Q | Well, she really didn't quantify her alcohol | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | consumption that evening for you, did she -- or did she? | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | A | You know, I really can't remember. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | Did she indicate an ongoing use of alcohol at | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | that time period around that accident? | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | I don't know what you mean by ongoing. I'm | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult. I don't know | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | what you mean by ongoing. | Fledderjohann | |
| 9 | Q | I'll try to get on the same wavelength. | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | Okay. | Fledderjohann |
| 11 | Q | I'm not a clinical psychologist or anything. Was | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | it a one-time thing that she talked to you about or did | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | she indicate that it was, I mean, like, say, I drank | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | Friday; I drank Saturday; I drank Sunday; I had a crash, | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | you know? | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | A | We look at a drinking pattern. Okay? So we | Fledderjohann |
| 17 | don't specifically look at what days it takes place. We | Fledderjohann | |
| 18 | look at an overall drinking pattern to see if someone - | Fledderjohann | |
| 19 | when we're trying to diagnose someone. Okay? So it's | Fledderjohann | |
| 20 | not so important what day the drinking takes place as | Fledderjohann | |
| 21 | you just look for that pattern of alcohol consumption. | Fledderjohann | |
| 22 | So if someone has an ongoing pattern -- I mean, | Fledderjohann | |
| 23 | most people that drink have an ongoing pattern of | Fledderjohann | |
| 24 | consumption, but it might not be every weekend. It | Fledderjohann | |
| 25 | could be every weekend, you know, so ongoing, I don't | Fledderjohann | |
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| 1 | know. | Fledderjohann | |
| 2 | Q | Okay. Did you identify any pattern then with | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | Ms. Hasenjager? | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | A | Not a specific pattern, not like every Friday | Fledderjohann |
| 5 | night, every Saturday night, every -- no. | Fledderjohann | |
| 6 | Q | Or something that triggered it -- stress factors? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 8 | Q | Relationships? People who she was associating | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | with that would trigger it? | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 11 | Q | Q.. Did you counsel with anybody else or talk to | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | anybody else concerning Miss Hasenjager's counseling? | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 14 | Q | Just her? | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | A | (No audible response.) | Fledderjohann |
| 16 | Q | The counseling that you did on the marijuana | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | A | abuse, did that arise as a result of an event or did she | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | just come to see you for help, do you know? | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | A | No, I think that came as a result of something | Fledderjohann |
| 20 | that had happened in court, I think. | Fledderjohann | |
| 21 | Q | When you counseled with her recently in 'O5, did | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | she indicate that she had terminated her marijuana use? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 24 | Q | Did she indicate how long it had been? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | A | She did indicate, but I can't remember how long | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | it had been. | Fledderjohann | |
| 2 | Q | Had she used since her counseling sessions had | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | terminated from the '03-'04? | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 5 | Q | Was there any other chemicals that were indicated | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | that were -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 8 | Q | -- used, legal or not? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | Legal or not, no. | Fledderjohann |
| 10 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| 11 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: I don't have any further | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | Q | questions. Thank you. | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Luth. It | Zitter | |
| 14 | will be just a moment, Mrs. Fledderjohann. | Zitter | |
| 15 | THE WITNESS: Okay. | Fledderjohann | |
| 16 | REDIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 17 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 18 | Q | Just for purposes of clarification, | Luth |
| 19 | Ms. Fledderjohann, essentially there have been two | Luth | |
| 20 | separate encounters with Emma, two separate series of | Luth | |
| 21 | counseling with her? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 23 | Q | The first one began sometime in 2003 and ended | Luth |
| 24 | after that in 2004, and that one was focused on her | Luth | |
| 25 | marijuana-- | Luth | |
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| 1 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 2 | Q | -- use. Correct? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | And she was tested numerous times regarding that? | Luth |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 6 | Q | And she never tested positive, did she? | Luth |
| 7 | A | Correct, that is correct. | Fledderjohann |
| 8 | Q | And so you ended that counseling as well because | Luth |
| 9 | you saw no need to continue. Correct? | Fledderjohann | |
| 10 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
| 11 | Q | And during that counseling, you never saw | Luth |
| 12 | A | anything that would indicate Emma could not care for her | Luth |
| 13 | children adequately? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | Q | And then this, the second session so to speak, | Luth |
| 16 | started sometime around December of 2004? | Luth | |
| 17 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 18 | Q | And that was after the accident that she had in a | Luth |
| 19 | motor vehicle. Correct? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
| 21 | Q | The accident to which Mr. Van Arsdel is referring | Luth |
| 22 | is the only one that you're aware of. Correct? | Luth | |
| 23 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
| 24 | Q | All right. And since that counseling began in | Luth |
| 25 | December, you met with Emma approximately every other | Luth | |
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| 1 | week? | Luth | |
| 2 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 3 | Q | Arid there again, you haven't seen anything in her | Luth |
| 4 | character or condition that would indicate that it was | Luth | |
| 5 | A | adversely affecting her ability to parent? | Luth |
| 6 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | Q | No adverse factors there? | Luth |
| 8 | A | No. | Fledderjohann |
| 9 | MR. LUTH: All right. Thank you. | Luth | |
| 10 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel, you have no -- | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | RECROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 12 | BY MR. VAN ARSDEL: | ||
| 13 | Q | If you would assume that the automobile collision | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | happened at 2 o'clock in the morning -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 16 | Q | -- and that she was to get her daughter at 7 | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | o'clock that same morning -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | Q | -- do you think that she would have been capable | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | of taking care of her daughter at -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | MR. LUTH: I'm going to object to that | Luth | |
| 22 | Q | question, your Honor. I don't know if that's a proper | Luth |
| 23 | foundation for an opinion. There's certainly not enough | Luth | |
| 24 | information there. Just because someone has an accident | Luth | |
| 25 | doesn't render enough information for the witness to | Luth | |
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| 1 | have an opinion about that. | Luth | |
| 2 | THE COURT: Any response, Mr. Van Arsdel? | Zitter | |
| 3 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Well, he was talking about | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | her ability to -- her opinion as to her ability to | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | parent. I would think that if we get down to a more | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | specific situation, I think that Ms. Fledderjohann is | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | aware of the alcohol consumption, that she could render | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | A | an opinion upon what she knows about that situation. | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel, I think Mr. Luth | Zitter | |
| 10 | is correct, and so far what I've heard would not give | Zitter | |
| 11 | Ms. Fledderjohann enough information as to the amount of | Zitter | |
| 12 | A | alcohol. That's the reason I'll let you rephrase the | Zitter |
| 13 | Q | question if you'd like, make it more specific, but there | Zitter |
| 14 | is not enough information to elicit a response. | Zitter | |
| 15 | Q | If you can assume those factors that I just told | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | you about the time frame and that -- well, let me back | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | up. I have to ask you a question first. | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | Are you familiar with levels -- blood alcohol | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | levels and -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | I'm familiar with BACs, yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 21 | Q | The breath? | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 23 | Q | If you would take those things I asked you to | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | A | assume and assume that she had -- | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | MR. LUTH: I'm going to object to this | Luth | |
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| 1 | Q | question as well, your Honor, because there's no | Luth |
| 2 | evidence of what Miss Hasenjager's blood alcohol level | Luth | |
| 3 | was that could properly be before the court. The only | Luth | |
| 4 | test that was ever administered her was thrown out of | Luth | |
| 5 | court in the related case in Celina Municipal Court as | Luth | |
| 6 | being inadmissible. | Luth | |
| 7 | THE COURT: I'm going to allow the | Zitter | |
| 8 | Q | question as asked with specificity which is why I found | Zitter |
| 9 | it was not appropriate the last time. Continue, | Zitter | |
| 10 | Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 11 | Q | It's an assumption. If you could assume that the | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | BAC of Miss Hasenjager near the time of 2:00 a.m. was | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | .207-- | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | Yes. | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | Q | -- would that have any bearing upon your opinion | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | A | as to her ability to parent that child or children - | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | .207 grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath? | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | She has five hours between? | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | Q | Well, 2:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m., yes, five hours. | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | A | So your BAC -- it becomes a question of at what | Fledderjohann |
| 21 | point is impairment versus BAC level. Everyone's, you | Fledderjohann | |
| 22 | know -- no, I can't make an assumption. | Fledderjohann | |
| 23 | Q | Because you can be a functioning alcoholic and do | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | just fine -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | Q | -- at a high test? | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | Well, I don't know if you could do just fine, but | Fledderjohann |
| 3 | people with -- | Fledderjohann | |
| 4 | Q | Well, their normals? | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | Exactly. I mean, it's a call that it's hard to | Fledderjohann |
| 6 | make because I don't know how she functions at .2 and I | Fledderjohann | |
| 7 | don't know how she functions at .1. You know, I don't | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | know how she functions. | Fledderjohann | |
| 9 | Q | Well, you rendered an opinion that her ability to | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | parent would not have been affected by her chemical | Van Arsdel | |
| 11 | abuse. | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | A | Uh-huh. | Hasenjager |
| 13 | Q | Correct? | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
| 15 | Q | SO that leaves me to question how can you render | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | that opinion when you don't know how she functions at | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | what level of -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | I was rendering that opinion based on my | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | diagnosis overall. I was not rendering my opinion based | Fledderjohann | |
| 20 | on that diagnosis of one time. Okay? So, I mean, | Fledderjohann | |
| 21 | that's my -- that was my opinion. That's what it was | Fledderjohann | |
| 22 | based on. | Fledderjohann | |
| 23 | Q | I'm not understanding your -- | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | A | Because someone has a chemical abuse diagnosis | Fledderjohann |
| 25 | doesn't mean that they can't parent, and that's what I | Fledderjohann | |
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| 1 | was answering the questions in regards to. | Fledderjohann | |
| 2 | Q | In general, not specific is what you're saying? | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | A | In general, not specific. | Fledderjohann |
| 4 | Q | But if you go to a specific, I mean, if you would | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | have a situation where -- I'm not saying this is here -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | Q | But you have a situation where a person abuses | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | once and they're under the influence, that that would | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | A | affect their ability to parent if they have their child? | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | If you look at abusing alcohol as not being able | Fledderjohann |
| 11 | to parent when someone's abusing alcohol, we're going to | Fledderjohann | |
| 12 | be in big trouble because a lot of people abuse alcohol | Fledderjohann | |
| 13 | A | and they still parent. So I don't know -- I'm not -- I | Fledderjohann |
| 14 | can't-- | Fledderjohann | |
| 15 | Q | Are you saying that you have to have a factor | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | where the child is actually in danger or hurt before you | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | can say that -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | I think that -- I'm just speaking generally. | Fledderjohann |
| 19 | Q | Sure. | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | A | I'm not going to speak specifically because I | Fledderjohann |
| 21 | have no clue how people -- I don't have any clue to how | Fledderjohann | |
| 22 | people parent under what -- at what BAC level. I mean, | Fledderjohann | |
| 23 | I don't know that anybody could speak to that. So I'm | Fledderjohann | |
| 24 | not going to speak specifically. I'll speak generally, | Fledderjohann | |
| 25 | A | and I never saw a reason why she couldn't parent. I | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | didn't see her that night. I don't have any clue as to | Fledderjohann | |
| 2 | what was going on. | Fledderjohann | |
| 3 | Q | Okay. So just based upon what you know, that you | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | didn't see that the chemical would have an effect on her | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | ability to parent? | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | A | Exactly. | Fledderjohann |
| 7 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Okay. I don't have any | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | further questions. | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | THE WITNESS: Okay. | Fledderjohann | |
| 10 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 11 | THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann | |
| 12 | THE COURT: The court, however, does. | Zitter | |
| 13 | Ms. Fledderjohann, is there a difference between | Zitter | |
| 14 | dependency and abuse? | Zitter | |
| 15 | THE WITNESS: Yes. | Fledderjohann | |
| 16 | THE COURT: Could you clarify that for the | Zitter | |
| 17 | court, please? | Zitter | |
| 18 | THE WITNESS: Dependency, you would need | Fledderjohann | |
| 19 | criteria that would include a tolerance. You would need | Fledderjohann | |
| 20 | withdrawal. You would need -- I'm 'going through the DSM | Fledderjohann | |
| 21 | criteria. | Fledderjohann | |
| 22 | THE COURT: Sure. | Zitter | |
| 23 | THE WITNESS: Substance is used over a | Fledderjohann | |
| 24 | longer period or more than was anticipated. You would | Fledderjohann | |
| 25 | need -- I'm trying to go right down the list. You would | Fledderjohann | |
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| 1 | need unsuccessful efforts to control the use. You would | Fledderjohann | |
| 2 | need physical or psychological damage to either the -- | Fledderjohann | |
| 3 | there would by physical or psychological damage as a | Fledderjohann | |
| 4 | result of the use. You would need occupational kinds of | Fledderjohann | |
| 5 | -- you are looking at occupational kinds of things. Do | Fledderjohann | |
| 6 | people -- can people still go to work? Can they still | Fledderjohann | |
| 7 | fulfill their major role obligations? Do they keep | Fledderjohann | |
| 8 | their promises about their use? | Fledderjohann | |
| 9 | THE COURT: Okay. | Zitter | |
| 10 | THE WITNESS: Of those, you would need three | Fledderjohann | |
| 11 | in order to be dependent. | Fledderjohann | |
| 12 | THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much. | Zitter | |
| 13 | THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. | Fledderjohann | |
| 14 | THE COURT: I appreciate the clarification. | Zitter | |
| 15 | You may step down. | Zitter | |
| 16 | MR. LUTH: Could I ask one follow-up | Luth | |
| 17 | Q | question-- | Luth |
| 18 | THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. | Zitter | |
| 19 | MR. LUTH: -- to yours, your Honor? | Luth | |
| 20 | THE COURT: Certainly. | Luth | |
| 21 | FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 22 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 23 | Q | Then you did not find Emma to be dependent, did | Luth |
| 24 | you? | Luth | |
| 25 | A | Correct. | Fledderjohann |
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| 1 | MR. LUTH: Thank you. | Luth | |
| 2 | THE COURT: Mr. Luth, do you have another | Zitter | |
| 3 | witness? | Zitter | |
| 4 | MR. LUTH: Yes, Emma Hasenjager, please. | Luth | |
| 5 | THE COURT: Okay. Miss Hasenjager. | Zitter | |
| 6 | THE BAILIFF: Raise your right hand. | Baliff | |
| 7 | EMMA HASENJAGER, | ||
| 8 | of lawful age, having been first duly cautioned and | ||
| 9 | sworn, as hereinafter certified, was examined and | ||
| 10 | testified as follows: | ||
| 11 | THE BAILIFF: Please be seated. | Baliff | |
| 12 | THE COURT: Miss Hasenjager, not only your | Zitter | |
| 13 | A | attorney but also Mr. Van Arsdel will probably be asking | Zitter |
| 14 | you questions. I'm going to need to make sure you | Zitter | |
| 15 | A | answer loud enough to be heard on the microphone and to | Zitter |
| 16 | make sure all of your answers are verbal ones. Make | Zitter | |
| 17 | sure you answer out loud because we are taping the | Zitter | |
| 18 | proceedings. All right. Mr. Luth, please. | Zitter | |
| 19 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 20 | DIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 21 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 22 | Q | Miss Hasenjager, would you please state your name | Luth |
| 23 | for the record? | Luth | |
| 24 | A | Emma Hasenjager. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | What's your current address? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | [address removed for safety] | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | And your date of birth, please? | Luth |
| 3 | A | [removed] 1975. | Hasenjager |
| 4 | Q | And what is your social security number? | Luth |
| 5 | A | [SS Number Removed for Security] | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | You have two children? | Luth |
| 7 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | And what are their names and birth dates, please? | Luth |
| 9 | A | Dethora Crimson Hasenjager, November 14, 1993. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Demetra Clover Hasenjager, October 10, 2002. | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | Q | And Mr. Fisher is seated here in the courtroom | Luth |
| 12 | today. He is the father of Demetra. Correct? | Luth | |
| 13 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | He's not the father of Dethora? | Luth |
| 15 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | All right. So there's some age difference there | Luth |
| 17 | between Dethora and Demetra? | Luth | |
| 18 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | How old is Dethora then? | Luth |
| 20 | A | Dethora is 11. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Could I ask you to speak up just a little bit? | Luth |
| 22 | A | Dethora is 11 years old. | Hasenjager |
| 23 | Q | And Demetra is? | Luth |
| 24 | A | Two. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Okay. Do they have a good relationship with one | Luth |
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| 1 | A | another? | Luth |
| 2 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | How would you describe that relationship for the | Luth |
| 4 | court? Can you describe it? How do they interact with | Luth | |
| 5 | each-- | Luth | |
| 6 | A | Between the sisters? | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | Yes. | Luth |
| 8 | A | Very good. They find common ground to do things | Hasenjager |
| 9 | despite the age difference. | Hasenjager | |
| 10 | Q | Do they seem closely bonded to one another? | Luth |
| 11 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | All right. You and Mr. Fisher have been | Luth |
| 13 | operating under a shared-parenting plan ordered by this | Luth | |
| 14 | court previously, I believe, in December of '03; is that | Luth | |
| 15 | correct? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 17 | Q | Did something happen in December of '04 such that | Luth |
| 18 | it seemed that that parenting schedule was interrupted? | Luth | |
| 19 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 20 | Q | What happened? | Luth |
| 21 | A | Paul refused access of Demetra to me and her | Hasenjager |
| 22 | whereabouts for a period of almost two weeks. | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | Q | When did that begin? | Luth |
| 24 | A | December 27. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | 2004? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | 2004. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | And when did it end? | Luth |
| 3 | A | January 11, 2005. | Hasenjager |
| 4 | Q | Q . Did you have communication with Mr. fisher during | Luth |
| 5 | that period of time? | Luth | |
| 6 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | Would you describe those communications for the court? | Luth |
| 8 | court? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | I would call him to find out where Demetra was | Hasenjager |
| 10 | A | and why he wasn't bringing her over, and he was telling | Hasenjager |
| 11 | me, no, that he was not going to bring her over or tell | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | me where she was. | Hasenjager | |
| 13 | Q | How often did you ask him during that time frame | Luth |
| 14 | of December 27, '04 to January 12, 'OS, those questions? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | Mondays through Thursday, I called daily to find | Hasenjager |
| 16 | out; and then on the weekends, I assumed was his time so | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | I kind of let -that go. There was a Saturday I called, | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | A | and he let me speak with her on the phone. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | But during that entire period of time, you were | Luth |
| 20 | never advised of her whereabouts? | Luth | |
| 21 | A | The first couple of days, he told me he had taken | Hasenjager |
| 22 | her to his mother's. But the other days afterwards, he | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | would not tell me where she was. | Hasenjager | |
| 24 | Q | Do you know if he went to work during that period | Luth |
| 25 | 'of time? | Luth | |
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| 1 | A | Yes. Some of the times that I reached him, he | Hasenjager |
| 2 | was at his office at work. | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | Q | How did this affect you? | Luth |
| 4 | A | Traumatically. It was a very difficult period to | Hasenjager |
| 5 | get through. I was very emotionally disturbed not | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | having my daughter and not knowing whether or not she | Hasenjager | |
| 7 | was okay. | Hasenjager | |
| 8 | Q | When you did see Demetra again on January 11, | Luth |
| 9 | 2004 (sic), can you compare her status or conduct at | Luth | |
| 10 | that time compared to her status before that period | Luth | |
| 11 | began? | Luth | |
| 12 | A | Yes. I could tell Demetra was very happy to see | Hasenjager |
| 13 | me and to be home. I also noticed that she was very | Hasenjager | |
| 14 | clingy to me, would scream when I went out of her sight | Hasenjager | |
| 15 | A | and, yeah, just wanted to be beside me. For several | Hasenjager |
| 16 | days she was very upset. Even if I left the room to go | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | use the rest room, she would start to cry and wail. | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | Q | Had she acted like that prior to this time frame | Luth |
| 19 | of December 27 to January 12? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | No, she'd always been comfortable being at home. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Did you notice anything else different about her? | Luth |
| 22 | A | She didn't like having her diapers changed at | Hasenjager |
| 23 | A | all. She would scream and kick and tell me that it hurt | Hasenjager |
| 24 | A | and give me quite a time about it. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | And had she acted l~ke that before? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | Did you notice anything about her sleep patterns? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Yes, she wasn't sleeping well. She would wake up | Hasenjager |
| 4 | screaming in the night so -- | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | Q | Had she done that prior to the December 27 | Luth |
| 6 | through January 11,episode? | Luth | |
| 7 | A | No, not in the way that she had, no. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | Q.' Could you describe for the court the layout of | Luth |
| 9 | your home? | Luth | |
| 10 | A | Yes. I live in a bi-level. When you walk in the | Hasenjager |
| 11 | front door, there are steps going up and down. On the | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | upper level there's the kitchen, and the living room is | Hasenjager | |
| 13 | A | an open area. And then on the other side of the wall | Hasenjager |
| 14 | behind that is my bedroom; and then there's another | Hasenjager | |
| 15 | split set of steps up and down to the lower level and | Hasenjager | |
| 16 | the basement. | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | Starting from the front door, there's a rest room | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | with the washroom inside; Dethora's bedroom, and then | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | Demetra's bedroom; and then there's a storage room. | Hasenjager | |
| 20 | Q | So each of your children have their own bedrooms | Luth |
| 21 | in your home? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | Yes, they do. | Hasenjager |
| 23 | Q | Are you able to keep tabs on Demetra even from | Luth |
| 24 | the upper level? | Luth | |
| 25 | A | Yes, you can hear through the apartment very | Hasenjager |
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| 1 | well, through the rooms and the vents. And her room is | Hasenjager | |
| 2 | just below mine, just down the stairs from mine. | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | Q | And her 11-year-old sister sleeps right next | Luth |
| 4 | door? | Luth | |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | Are you in good health? | Luth |
| 7 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | Is Demetra in good health? | Luth |
| 9 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Q | You've told us a little bit about her | Luth |
| 11 | relationship with her sister. How would you describe | Luth | |
| 12 | your relationship with Demetra? | Luth | |
| 13 | A | Very good. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | Does she respond well to you? | Luth |
| 15 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | Do you have any particular unusual disciplinary | Luth |
| 17 | problems with her? | Luth | |
| 18 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | Does she seem to be developing well? | Luth |
| 20 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Do you read to her? | Luth |
| 22 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 23 | Q | Do you work on numbers with her? | Luth |
| 24 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Does she seem to enjoy her time with you? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | Do you enjoy your time with her? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 4 | Q | Does she appear to be comfortable around you? | Luth |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | Does she appear to be comfortable around her | Luth |
| 7 | sister? | Luth | |
| 8 | A | Yes, she likes her sister very well. | Hasenjager |
| 9 | Q | She enjoys spending time with her? | Luth |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | Does she seem comfortable in your home? | Luth |
| 12 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 13 | Q | Now, the shared-parenting plan that you have in | Luth |
| 14 | effect at present requires almost daily contact with | Luth | |
| 15 | Mr. Fisher; is -that correct? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | Almost daily. When I go to work, his mom will | Hasenjager |
| 17 | pick Demetra up at my job, so I don't see him at that | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | time. Just in the mornings when he brings her before he | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | goes to work . It's usually brief. | Hasenjager | |
| 20 | Q | All right. And are those contacts usually | Luth |
| 21 | pleasant? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | I don't know if they're pleasant. They're not | Hasenjager |
| 23 | A | always unpleasant either. They -- usually try to keep | Hasenjager |
| 24 | it brief, just short, to the point -- exchange Demetra. | Hasenjager | |
| 25 | Q | Have there been any problems between you and | Luth |
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| 1 | Mr. Fisher during the period of the shared-parenting | Luth | |
| 2 | plan that would be in addition to the December 27 | Luth | |
| 3 | through January 12 time frame? | Luth | |
| 4 | A | Sorry. Could you ask me that again? | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | I'm sorry. It was kind of a long question. | Luth |
| 6 | Other than the December 27 to January 12 episode, | Luth | |
| 7 | have there been any problems between you and Mr. Fisher | Luth | |
| 8 | since the shared-parenting plan was implemented? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | On occasion. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Q | Would you describe those for the court? | Luth |
| 11 | A | Conflict. Yes, there have been times where, | Hasenjager |
| 12 | yeah, just exchanges just did not go well and harsh | Hasenjager | |
| 13 | words were spoken. | Hasenjager | |
| 14 | Q | Who was speaking the harsh words? | Luth |
| 15 | A | Well, Paul would sometimes have unpleasant things | Hasenjager |
| 16 | to say. If I didn't want to agree to something with | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | him, he would take a tone with me, like his mood would | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | change. | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | There was an instance where he followed me out to | Hasenjager | |
| 20 | my car and opened the car door and then closed it back | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | on me and flipped me off and was calling me names. | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | Q | What kind of names? | Luth |
| 23 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: I'm going to make an | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | objection or perhaps a clarification as to what kind of | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | time frame we're talking about here, if it was -- | Van Arsdel | |
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| 1 | THE COURT: Mr. Luth, if you would, please. | Zitter | |
| 2 | Q | Was it since the shared-parenting plan was | Luth |
| 3 | implemented? | Luth | |
| 4 | A | Yes, this was a time in July. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | Of what year? | Luth |
| 6 | A | Of 2004. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | Okay. | Luth |
| 8 | A | He was asking of me to sign something for him; | Hasenjager |
| 9 | A | and I refused, which didn't make him happy. He followed | Hasenjager |
| 10 | me out to my car, opened the car do?r, slammed it back | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | on me and flipped me off. I filed a police complaint - | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | A | a complaint with the police about the situation. | Hasenjager |
| 13 | Q | You mentioned there was name calling. Was that | Luth |
| 14 | during that July of '04 incident? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | I couldn't be sure. I was doing the best I could | Hasenjager |
| 16 | to block out what he was saying to me at that time. I | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | just wanted to pick up Demetra for my visitation and be | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | on my way. | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | Q | Okay. And was Demetra present? | Luth |
| 20 | A | She was. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Okay. Have there been any occasions, other | Luth |
| 22 | occasions when she was present and there was name | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | calling? | Hasenjager | |
| 24 | A | Yes, there was a situation on -- | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Do you know when it was? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | October 10 -- or, October 8, I mean, where he was | Hasenjager |
| 2 | A | asking-- | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | Of what year, ma' am? | Luth |
| 4 | A | Of 2004. October 8, 2004, I had gone to pick her | Hasenjager |
| 5 | up, and he was asking me if he could have her for an | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | occasion, which I was in agreeance (sic) with. However, | Hasenjager | |
| 7 | I wanted compensated for the time, if we could do an | Hasenjager | |
| 8 | exchange for however many hours of my time for him, if I | Hasenjager | |
| 9 | could have that back. And he didn't want to agree with | Hasenjager | |
| 10 | that and referred to me -- he asked me to admit to being | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | the bitch that I am and also said "screw you" t-o me and | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | stormed away saying something to the reference of the | Hasenjager | |
| 13 | next time you get pregnant. | Hasenjager | |
| 14 | Q | And was your daughter present for that time? | Luth |
| 15 | A | She was. | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | Can you think of any other occasions where there | Luth |
| 17 | have been unpleasant -- unpleasantries directed toward | Luth | |
| 18 | you by Mr. Fisher? | Luth | |
| 19 | A | Nothing that I could tell you that I have dates | Hasenjager |
| 20 | for, just here and there. Because it's not -- those are | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | two things that have really stood out in my mind, but | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | it's not my personal objective to focus on the negative | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | points of things that are happening. I've been trying | Hasenjager | |
| 24 | to maintain a positive outlook in the rearing of Demetra | Hasenjager | |
| 25 | than to focus on the bad. l'd like for those things to | Hasenjager | |
| Home | Page 34 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | dissipate. | Hasenjager | |
| 2 | Q | You don't care to dwell on those things? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 4 | Q | What is your purpose then? | Luth |
| 5 | A | My purpose is to raise Demetra in a positive way | Hasenjager |
| 6 | A | and to have her be healthy and happy. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | Do you attempt to foster a positive attitude in | Luth |
| 8 | her concerning Mr. Fisher? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Q | Do you feel he's doing that for you? | Luth |
| 11 | A | I hope that he does. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | Is your daughter disrespectful to you? | Luth |
| 13 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | All right. Has Mr. Fisher asked for changes in | Luth |
| 15 | scheduling from time to time then? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | On occasion, yes. | Hasenjager |
| 17 | Q | Do you a ttempt to accommoda te him? | Luth |
| 18 | A | I try to. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | Have you asked him to change Demetra's schedule | Luth |
| 20 | to accommodate you? | Luth | |
| 21 | A | On occasion, yes. | Hasenjager |
| 22 | Q | And has he agreed? | Luth |
| 23 | A | From time to time. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | Are you employed, ma'am? | Luth |
| 25 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 35 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | What is -- where are you employed? Excuse me. | Luth |
| 2 | A | Casa Rodriguez. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | What do you do there? | Luth |
| 4 | A | I'm the night manager. I wai t tables. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | Do you know what your income was there in 2004? | Luth |
| 6 | A | Not offhand. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | If I show you a copy of your 2004 tax return, | Luth |
| 8 | would that refresh your memory? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | Perhaps. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | MR. LUTH: Is that all right, your Honor -- | Luth | |
| 11 | I'm sorry. | Luth | |
| 12 | THE COURT: Certainly. I f you would show | Zitter | |
| 13 | Mr. Van Arsdel, or do you have a copy, Mr. Van Arsdel? | Zitter | |
| 14 | MR. LUTH: I think Mr. Van Arsdel has a | Luth | |
| 15 | copy. | Luth | |
| 1 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you. | Zitter | |
| 17 | THE COURT: You may continue, Mr. Luth. | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 19 | Q | Do you recall then what your income was for 2004? | Luth |
| 20 | A | It says $11,946. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Thank you. Do you pay any heal th insurance | Luth |
| 22 | premiums for your daughter? | Luth | |
| 23 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | Do you have any baby-sitter expense concerning | Luth |
| 25 | your daughter, Demetra? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 36 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | You do have the other child that we've already | Luth |
| 3 | discussed. You have one other daughter. Right? | Luth | |
| 4 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | You have no more children? | Luth |
| 6 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | Okay. There's been some discussion here about | Luth |
| 8 | whether or not you consume alcohol. Do you consume | Luth | |
| 9 | A | alcohol? | Luth |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | Do you do so in the presence of your children? | Luth |
| 12 | A | No. I have but not to an excess or on a regular | Hasenjager |
| 13 | basis, but there have been times when I've had my | Hasenjager | |
| 14 | children that I have had a drink. | Hasenjager | |
| 15 | Q | And how much have you drank? What would be the | Luth |
| 16 | most that you drank around your children? | Luth | |
| 17 | A | Perhaps a couple glasses of wine. | Hasenjager |
| 18 | Q | Okay. | Luth |
| 19 | A | And that's -- those times are usually before bed. | Hasenjager |
| 20 | Q | Is that when your children are -- | Luth |
| 21 | A | When-- | Hasenjager |
| 22 | Q | 11m sorry. Please go ahead. | Luth |
| 23 | A | Like at bedtime. Like we'd have dinner and they | Hasenjager |
| 24 | would take their baths, and I may have poured a drink | Hasenjager | |
| 25 | while they were still awake. | Hasenjager | |
| Home | Page 37 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | A drink of wine? | Luth |
| 2 | A | A drink of wine. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | All right. Do you become intoxicated in their | Luth |
| 4 | presence? | Luth | |
| 5 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | You recently went to see Miss Fledderjohann, as | Luth |
| 7 | has already been established here. Why did you go | Luth | |
| 8 | there? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | To determine if I had -- to get an assessment | Hasenjager |
| 10 | done to see if I was an alcoholic. | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | Q | Okay. | Luth |
| 12 | A | Yes, based on concerns from Paul. | Hasenjager |
| 13 | Q | Had he said something to you along those lines? | Luth |
| 14 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 15 | Q | When? | Luth |
| 16 | A | During the 27th through the 11th, on a Monday he | Hasenjager |
| 17 | had stopped over and had mentioned that he didn't feel | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | that drugs and alcohol were a choice for me any longer | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | but a necessity. | Hasenjager | |
| 20 | Q | And do you use any sort of illegal drugs? | Luth |
| 21 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 22 | Q | Okay. And outside of this one incident where you | Luth |
| 23 | had the automobile accident, have you had any problems | Luth | |
| 24 | in the use of alcohol? Has it interfered wi th your | Luth | |
| 25 | functioning in any way? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 38 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | And would you admit that it did interfere with | Luth |
| 3 | your functioning on that evening? | Luth | |
| 4 | A | Yes, it did. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | Have you ever consumed alcohol and drove with | Luth |
| 6 | your kids? | Luth | |
| 7 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | In your opinion is there any problem with the | Luth |
| 9 | current shared-parenting plan? | Luth | |
| 10 | A | Not too much, no. I think the schedule works | Hasenjager |
| 11 | pretty well for the most part other than difficulty | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | during exchanges from time to time. | Hasenjager | |
| 13 | Q | We've asked the court to terminate the | Luth |
| 14 | shared-parenting plan. Why did you ask the court to do | Luth | |
| 15 | that? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | Because I feel uncomfortable in lieu of this past | Hasenjager |
| 17 | situation. | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | Q | Which situation? | Luth |
| 19 | A | Of Paul keeping Demetra from me for the extended | Hasenjager |
| 20 | period of time makes me uneasy as to whether or not | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | things are going to continue -- if they will be able to | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | work well between us. | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | Q | Would you like for them to? | Luth |
| 24 | A | I would very much. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Is there anything that could be done to make it | Luth |
| Home | Page 39 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | work better? | Luth | |
| 2 | A | I hope so. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | What would that be in your opinion? | Luth |
| 4 | A | I'm not sure. I guess time to -- more time to | Hasenjager |
| 5 | see how things will go. | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | Q | Is there anything that you'd like to be handled | Luth |
| 7 | differently between you and Mr. Fisher for the benefit | Luth | |
| 8 | of your child? | Luth | |
| 9 | A | Yes, I'd like to have a positive exchange pattern | Hasenjager |
| 10 | develop where we can greet each other with smiles, I | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | guess, and, like, a positive exchange between us. | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | Q | Has Mr. Fisher expressed any particular goals of | Luth |
| 13 | his to you? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | That he would like custody of Demetra. I think | Hasenjager |
| 15 | that for some reason he finds faults with me and has a | Hasenjager | |
| 16 | tendency to think that I'm not fit to be the parent of | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | his child. | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | Q | Has he said anything to you that would indicate | Luth |
| 19 | that? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | Well, he did ask me, or, told me that he wanted | Hasenjager |
| 21 | custody, yeah. And I think -- I don't know if it's him | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | so much directly saying but he has roundabout ways of | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | indicating to me. | Hasenjager | |
| 24 | Q | Has he said anything to you about his attitude in | Luth |
| 25 | having to deal with you on a regular basis? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 40 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | Yes. He's told me that he feels he's being | Hasenjager |
| 2 | punished by the divine having to deal with me on a daily | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | basis. | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | Q | How long ago did that occur? | Luth |
| 5 | A | In the time frame that he was keeping Demetra | Hasenjager |
| 6 | from me, on the telephone, and at other times he's told | Hasenjager | |
| 7 | me. | Hasenjager | |
| 8 | Q | But the most recent one was during that 12/27 to | Luth |
| 9 | January 11 time frame? | Luth | |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | How do you take that sort of comment? How does | Luth |
| 12 | that affect you? | Luth | |
| 13 | A | Well, I don't really deal with him on a | Hasenjager |
| 14 | day-to-day basis and we don't have much interaction | Hasenjager | |
| 15 | together, so I don't see how my presence on the earth is | Hasenjager | |
| 16 | really that disturbing to him. | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | Q | Would you be willing to cooperate with any type | Luth |
| 18 | of counseling that the court might feel would facilitate | Luth | |
| 19 | the exchanges between you and Mr. Fisher? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | If the court would see fit to terminate the | Luth |
| 22 | shared-parenting plan and if the court would designate | Luth | |
| 23 | you as the custodial parent of Demetra, what do you feel | Luth | |
| 24 | would be a proper parenting plan in terms of how often | Luth | |
| 25 | should she see her dad? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 41 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | I think she should still see her father on a | Hasenjager |
| 2 | regular basis. It's good for them to continue a | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | relationship with one another. The sched~ling that we | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | have now, I think, works fine for the time being. I | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | have her while he's working, and he has her while I'm | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | working; and then we trade-off on the weekends so -- | Hasenjager | |
| 7 | Q | So the schedule isn't bad? | Luth |
| 8 | A | Yeah, I think the schedule works well for now | Hasenjager |
| 9 | with where we are in our lives. | Hasenjager | |
| 10 | Q | And if you -- if the court would see fit -- | Luth |
| 11 | excuse me-- to make Mr. Fisher the custodial parent, | Luth | |
| 12 | there again, you think the same schedule should be | Luth | |
| 13 | followed? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 15 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, Miss Hasenjager. | Luth | |
| 16 | Thank you, your Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Van Arsdel, do | Zitter | |
| 18 | you have questions for Miss Hasenjager? | Zitter | |
| 19 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Yes. Thank you, your | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | CROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 22 | BY MR. VAN ARSDEL: | ||
| 23 | Q | The dates again for this time period that you | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | didn't see your daughter was 12/27 to 1/11/04? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 42 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | Or '05 -- excuse me. | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | 'as, yes. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | Excuse me. Do you recall having any discussions | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | with Paul about his mother baby-sitting -- I hate to use | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | that term -- day care for Demetra during that time | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | period? | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | And you indicated that in fact that some of those | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | days that you knew that Demetra was with Paul's mother? | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 1 | Q | And how many days was that that that situation | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | existed in that time period from 12/27 to 1/11 that he | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | was with grandma -- or, she was with grandma -- excuse | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | me. | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | Two days for definite. | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | And also during that time period, was there days | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | that Paul was off of work and had Demetra while he was | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | off of work? Are you aware of that or not? | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | A | Could have been. For the weekends, yes. I | Hasenjager |
| 20 | wouldn't imagine that he was in on Saturdays and | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | Sundays. | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | Q | Okay. But if he was off of work, it would have | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | been his day with Demetra anyway. Would that be | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | Some of the days. The days that were his days. | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 43 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | The days that were his days. I guess what I'm | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | referring to is you have a right of first refusal for | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | day care -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | -- usually? And during that time period, he may | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | have been off of work and had her on his days. Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | Okay. And then there were the days that were | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | your days and he was -- well, they were just your days, | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | and you were not working? | Van Arsdel |
| 11 | A | Right. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | And do you know how many days of that that there | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | were in that time frame, that 12/27 to 1/11? | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | Well, indeed the Mondays and Wednesdays. | Hasenjager |
| 15 | Q | Did you ever figure out how many days it was that | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | you feel -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | Yes, I have times, as notes, over on the desk | Hasenjager |
| 18 | there. | Hasenjager | |
| 19 | Q | Do you recall -- I'm just trying to get a figure | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | of how much you were slighted during that time period in | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | your opinion. | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | In my opinion I would say at least ten days -- | Hasenjager |
| 23 | Q | Was that the actual -- | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | A | -- that I figured with my days and the days for | Hasenjager |
| 25 | first right of refusal where Paul was at work. And | Hasenjager | |
| Home | Page 44 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | there were times that I spoke with Paul on the phone at | Hasenjager | |
| 2 | his office, so I knew he was at work and wasn't at home | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | with Demetra. | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | Q | Okay. That answers my question. Thank you. | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | Okay. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | When you called Paul during that time period, | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | that 12/27 to 1/11, where did you call him? Just at | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | work or did you call him at home or both? | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | A | Both, depending on where I was getting an answer. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | I would try to call his cell phone, called his work. | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | Q | But you didn't -- you were able to contact him at | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | home during that time period? Yes or no. | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | A | No, I usually call his cell phone. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | Okay. This collision that happened this year -- | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | or, excuse me -- last year, it would be '04, happened on | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | December 24. Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 18 | Q | December -- what was it, 25? | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 20 | Q | 23? | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 22 | Q | When was it? | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | A | It was December 3. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | December 3? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 45 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | What day of the week was that? | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | Thursday night, Friday morning. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | And what time of the morning would that have been | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | that the actual accident occurred? | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | Sometime around 1 o'clock in the morning. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | And was that morning a morning that you were to | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | have your daughter? | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 9 | Q | And you were to have her at , like, 7:0 0 a. m. ? | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | And did you have to call and make special | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | arrangements with Paul because you couldn't make it? | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | A | I didn't. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | You didn't make it or you didn't -- let me | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | withdraw the question. | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | You just didn't make it to pick up your daughter | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | then at 7 o'clock? | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | I was actually sleeping when he came over, and I | Hasenjager |
| 19 | must have not heard him at the door because I did have | Hasenjager | |
| 20 | the accident, so I was up very much later than I had | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | expected to be up. | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | Q | There was a breath test that was taken. Correct? | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | Do you know the results of that? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | MR. LUTH: I'm going to object to that, your | Luth | |
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| 1 | Honor, because the test has already been ruled to be | Luth | |
| 2 | inadmissible in the court of record. | Luth | |
| 3 | THE COURT: Mr. Luth, the question was, was | Zitter | |
| 4 | A | a Breathalyzer taken. I'm going to allow the question | Zitter |
| 5 | because it's not to determine whether or not she was | Zitter | |
| 6 | under the influence under a legal definition. You may | Zitter | |
| 7 | A | answer the question, please. | Zitter |
| 8 | THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question? | Hasenjager | |
| 9 | Q | Do you recall what the breath test was, what the | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | result was? | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | A | .207. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | Do you have an opinion as to whether or not you | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | were, let's say, under the influence when the accident | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | happened? | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | Is it my opinion? | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | Do you have an opinion as to whether or not you | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | yourself were under the influence when that accident | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | happened? | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | A | I had been drinking. | Hasenjager |
| 20 | Q | Correct. Do you have an opinion as to whether or | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | not you were under the influence? Did you -- let me put | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | it this way. Did you feel like you were intoxicated? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | And you drove in spite of that? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | A | Unfortunately, yes. | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 47 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | You were driving a truck at the time ? | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | I had a 1999 Ford Explorer. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | An SUV. What was the extent of damage to that | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | vehicle? | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | Front-end damage. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | Was it totaled? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | And did you have a passenger? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Q | It was a male passenger? | Van Arsdel |
| 11 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | Were either of you injured -- | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | -- in the accident? No? | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 16 | Q | Have you used marijuana since the last time you | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | A | and Paul were in court? | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | Did you continue drinking -- and not just | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | immediately after -- but did you continue drinking after | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | you had that collision, I mean, within a week, months | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | afterwards? | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | A | Yes, there were a couple of timBs after my | Hasenjager |
| 24 | A | accident that I consumed alcohol. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Would that have been the wine like you. were | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 48 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | talking about? | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | A | I had gone uptown with some friends. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | Was there just one incident after the accident or | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | was there more than one time when you were drinking? | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | Um-- | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | Don't remember? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | It wasn't anything I gave much thought to, I | Hasenjager |
| 8 | guess . | Hasenjager | |
| 9 | Q | Okay. | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | To calculate. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | Do you think if you and Paul could communicate a | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | little better that this shared-parenting plan would be | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | okay? | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 15 | Q | Do you have any desires as to counseling you | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | think would help you folks to communicate? | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | I would hope that it would. | Hasenjager |
| 18 | (Off record discussion). | ||
| 19 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: No further questions. | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | THE COURT: Mr. Luth. | Zitter | |
| 22 | REDIRECT-EXAMINATION | ||
| 23 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 24 | Q | You testified that the shared-parenting plan | Luth |
| 25 | basically calls for you to have Emma on Mondays and | Luth | |
| Home | Page 49 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Wednesdays during the week and every other weekend. | Luth | |
| 2 | Correct? | Luth | |
| 3 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 4 | Q | But you also get her on Tuesdays and Thursdays if | Luth |
| 5 | Mr. Fisher has to work; is that also Correct? | Luth | |
| 6 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 7 | Q | SO the only days that really he would be entitled | Luth |
| 8 | to keep her during the week, say, from the 27th of | Luth | |
| 9 | December through January 11, would have been Tuesdays | Luth | |
| 10 | A | and Thursdays. Correct? | Luth |
| 11 | A | For his days? | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | If he wasn't working? Pardon me? | Luth |
| 13 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | All right. And you reached him at work on | Luth |
| 15 | several occasions? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 17 | Q | Were any of those Tuesdays or Thursdays? | Luth |
| 18 | A | Perhaps. | Hasenjager |
| 19 | Q | Do you have any records or notes that would help | Luth |
| 20 | you recall? | Luth | |
| 21 | A | Those there that you're holding, yes. | Hasenjager |
| 22 | MR. LUTH: Your Honor, may the witness | Luth | |
| 23 | refresh her memory? | Luth | |
| 24 | THE COURT: Yes. | Zitter | |
| 25 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| Home | Page 50 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | THE WITNESS: I didn't really indicate in | Hasenjager | |
| 2 | here which phone line I had attempted to contact him at, | Hasenjager | |
| 3 | but there were times that I did reach him at his place | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | of business. | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | Q | I think December 28 was a Tuesday in December. | Luth |
| 6 | The 30 was a Thursday. Do you recall if you reached him | Luth | |
| 7 | A | at work either of those days? | Luth |
| 8 | A | Tuesday, and he told me that she was with his | Hasenjager |
| 9 | mother on that day; and Thursday, I'd -- I did not get | Hasenjager | |
| 10 | A | an answer from him at the numbers, that I tried to call. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | How about on January 4 or January 6? Do you | Luth |
| 12 | recall anything about reaching him at work on those | Luth | |
| 13 | days? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | I spoke with him on Tuesday, January 4, when he | Hasenjager |
| 15 | didn't bring Demetra over and didn't tell me where she | Hasenjager | |
| 16 | was. He wanted to know if I hid thought over what he | Hasenjager | |
| 17 | had as ked me on the previous day. | Hasenjager | |
| 18 | Q | Right now I just want to know if you know where | Luth |
| 19 | you reached him on those days. And if you don't, that's | Luth | |
| 20 | all right. I just wondered. | Hasenjager | |
| 21 | A | Right, I don't have it indicated actually which | Hasenjager |
| 22 | numb e r i tis. | Hasenjager | |
| 23 | Q | All right. Fair enough. Do you have the first | Luth |
| 24 | right of refusal to provide care on Fridays as well then | Luth | |
| 25 | if it's Paul's weekend? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 51 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | Yes, first right of refusal would still apply. | Hasenjager |
| 2 | Q | SO in this sense, it would have been on | Luth |
| 3 | January 7, I think, you would have had first right of | Luth | |
| 4 | refusal? | Luth | |
| 5 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | But you didn't see her that day either? | Luth |
| 7 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | Do you know if he went to work that day? | Luth |
| 9 | A | I don't. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | MR. LUTH: Okay. Thank you. I don't have | Luth | |
| 11 | A | anything further of the witness at this time, your | Luth |
| 12 | Honor. | Luth | |
| 13 | THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Luth. | Zitter | |
| 14 | Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 15 | RECROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 16 | BY MR. VAN ARSDEL: | ||
| 17 | Q | Is it your understanding that your | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | shared-parenting plan includes a holiday schedule or | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | not? | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | We have been acting with each other as if it does | Hasenjager |
| 21 | include the holiday schedule. | Hasenjager | |
| 22 | Q | And by that I mean the even or odd year back and | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | forth, flip-flop of the holidays. Your understanding is | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | that it does? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | Yes, at least we have been -- | Hasenjager |
| Home | Page 52 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | -- doing that? | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | Doing that. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | Do you recall how you determined who was the | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | residential and who was the nonresidential parent for | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | purposes of applying that for the even or odd year? | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | Yes, I was residential, and he was | Hasenjager |
| 7 | nonresidential. | Hasenjager | |
| 8 | Q | SO for -- well -- | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| 10 | MR. LUTH: Your Honor, Mr. Van Arsdel has | Luth | |
| 11 | shown me a document which is a copy of the Common Pleas | Luth | |
| 12 | Court Domestic Relations Standing Visitation Schedule. | Luth | |
| 13 | I don't believe that was incorporated into this court's | Luth | |
| 14 | order that was filed on December 17, 2003. However, I | Luth | |
| 15 | do not object to Mr. Van Arsdel showing her the | Luth | |
| 16 | document. But the Court's most recent order in this | Luth | |
| 17 | case is dated December 17, 2003, and there is no mention | Luth | |
| 18 | in that document of any holiday time. | Luth | |
| 19 | With that, I don't object to him showing the | Luth | |
| 20 | document to Miss Hasenjager. | Luth | |
| 21 | THE COURT: You may proceed. | Zitter | |
| 22 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| 23 | Q | I'm going to hand you what I've had marked as | Luth |
| 24 | Defendant's Exhibit A, and what I'm talking about is the | Luth | |
| 25 | bottom half of that where we talk -- right below where | Luth | |
| Home | Page 53 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | it says "even years"? | Luth | |
| 2 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | And there's a schedule for holidays? | Luth |
| 4 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 5 | Q | You indicate that you and Paul have been | Luth |
| 6 | following that? | Luth | |
| 7 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 8 | Q | And that you were the non -- or, excuse me -- you | Luth |
| 9 | were the residential parent for purposes of using that? | Luth | |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 11 | Q | SO this would have been 2004 for Christmas -- | Luth |
| 12 | Christmas and New Year's we're talking about. Right? | Luth | |
| 13 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 14 | Q | And then he would have been the nonresidential | Luth |
| 15 | parent? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 17 | Q | And you're operating then that he would have had | Luth |
| 18 | the Christmas vacation, New Year's from Christmas Day at | Luth | |
| 19 | 2 o'clock until the end of the New Year's holiday? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | And that would have been solid time that he, | Luth |
| 22 | under your agreement, would have been able to use or | Luth | |
| 23 | have? | Luth | |
| 24 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | Correct? | Luth |
| Home | Page 54 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | (No audible response.) | Hasenjager |
| 2 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
| 3 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: I don't have any further | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | Q | questions. Thank you. | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may | Zitter | |
| 6 | step down. Mr. Luth, do you have any more witnesses? | Zitter | |
| 7 | MR. LUTH: No further witnesses, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 8 | I would like to make a professional statement to the | Luth | |
| 9 | court that Miss Hasenjager has paid me the sum of $750 | Luth | |
| 10 | to represent her in these proceedings, including the | Luth | |
| 11 | contempt proceedings. Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 12 | THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 13 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you, your Honor. We | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | would call Paul Fisher, please. | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | PAUL FISHER, | ||
| 16 | of lawful age, having been first duly cautioned and | ||
| 17 | sworn, as hereinafter certified, was examined and | ||
| 18 | testified as follows: | ||
| 19 | THE BAILIFF: Please be seated. | Baliff | |
| 20 | THE COURT: Mr. Fisher, I realize you've | Zitter | |
| 21 | been in the courtroom, but I also want to remind you, | Zitter | |
| 22 | make sure you answer all the questions out loud. All | Zitter | |
| 23 | right. Your attorney -- first, Mr. Van Arsdel will ask | Zitter | |
| 24 | you questions, and then Mr. Luth may have questions for | Zitter | |
| 25 | you. All right. Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| Home | Page 55 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you, your Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | DIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 3 | BY MR. VAN ARSDEL: | ||
| 4 | Q | Your name is Paul Fisher? | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | That is true. | |
| 6 | Q | And your current address is [Address], | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | Celina? | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | And your date of birth is [birthdate] 1977? | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 11 | Q | And I'm not going to have you reci te your social | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | security number. It's-- | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | THE COURT: It's in the record, | Zitter | |
| 14 | Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 15 | Q | -- "in the record, yeah. On December of 2004, you | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | kept your daughter from her mother. Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | That's true. | Fisher |
| 18 | Q | And when did you do that? | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | A | The 23rd -- the 27th was the -- | Fisher |
| 20 | Q | Do you need a calendar to help you recall the | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | dates? | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | Yeah, that -- yeah. | |
| 23 | Q | Q . There's also notes onthi s calendar. Correct? | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 25 | Q | Do these notes help you refresh your recollection | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 56 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | to events that occurred in that time frame? | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | A | That's true. | Fisher |
| 3 | THE COURT: Do you want to see the calendar, | Zitter | |
| 4 | Mr. Luth? | Zitter | |
| 5 | MR. LUTH: I haven't seen it before. I'd | Luth | |
| 6 | Ii ke to see it. Thank you. Okay. | Luth | |
| 7 | Q | The question was is when that happened. Does | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | that help you refresh your recollection as to when | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | you-- | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 11 | Q | What was the first day that you kept -- | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | On the 27th of December, Emma and I had agreed | Fisher |
| 13 | that she would watch Demetra because she was going to | Fisher | |
| 14 | visit with a friend who was in from out of town. That | Fisher | |
| 15 | was the day that -- | Fisher | |
| 16 | Q | You kept her? | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | A | I kept her. | Fisher |
| 18 | Q | And something transpired in December that -- to | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | give you some concern about Demetra? | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 21 | Q | What was that? | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | A | In December, the month started wi th Emma not | Fisher |
| 23 | being there on a morning when I came to drop off | Fisher | |
| 24 | Demetra. | Fisher | |
| 25 | Q | Do you recall what day that was? | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 57 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | That was December -- December 2. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | Was that the morning of the automobile collision? | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | A | Yeah --well, that was the morning -- that was | Fisher |
| 4 | the Thursday that I would have -- Thursday, yeah, yeah, | Fisher | |
| 5 | I would have been going to work and I would have -- can | Fisher | |
| 6 | you tell me the date of the automobile collision? | Fisher | |
| 7 | Q | I can't testify. | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | A | Okay. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | You can say if it was approximately. Was there a | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | day that you went to drop off your daughter and | Van Arsdel | |
| 11 | something happened? | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | And that was in early December? | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | A | That was early December, yes. | Fisher |
| 15 | Q | 2004? | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 17 | Q | Okay. What happened? | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | A | I went to drop off my daughter, and when I got to | Fisher |
| 19 | Emma's house, there was a key in the door. And it | Fisher | |
| 20 | didn't have -- and the prior -- a day or two before | Fisher | |
| 21 | that, there had been a key in the door, also, when I | Fisher | |
| 22 | went to drop her off. Even though Emma is supposed to | Fisher | |
| 23 | pick her up, I drop her off sometimes because I need to | Fisher | |
| 24 | get to work earlier than I can wait for her to come get | Fisher | |
| 25 | her. | Fisher | |
| Home | Page 58 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | There was keys in the door; and this time there | Fisher | |
| 2 | was keys in the door, and she wasn't there. I called | Fisher | |
| 3 | her cell phone. I knocked on the door. I even drove | Fisher | |
| 4 | around to places I thought she might have spent the | Fisher | |
| 5 | night, and I couldn't find her. | Fisher | |
| 6 | Q | What time of day was this? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | This was 7:00 a.m. -- or, approximately 7:00 a.m. | Fisher |
| 8 | Q | Did you eventually find her? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | No, I never did find her. I ended up calling a | Fisher |
| 10 | person that we use as a baby-sitter to watch Demetra | Fisher | |
| 11 | because I had a meeting I had to get to, and she watched | Fisher | |
| 12 | her for a period of time. | Fisher | |
| 13 | Q | Was there -- what was the next event that gave | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | you some concern? | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | Later that week we had a snow storm, and the | Fisher |
| 16 | roads were iced over. And I -- work was canceled so I | Fisher | |
| 17 | returned to pick up my daughter approximately sometime | Fisher | |
| 18 | later. I had dropped her off and then gone to work and | Fisher | |
| 19 | returned. Actually, I hadn't dropped her off. I was | Fisher | |
| 20 | returning -- she had had her that night. And she | Fisher | |
| 21 | answered the door in a robe with no clothes on and that | Fisher | |
| 22 | bothered -- that day -- I'm sorry. That is inaccurate. | Fisher | |
| 23 | I'm kind ofá nervous up here. | Fisher | |
| 24 | No, the -- on the day of the ice storm, I came to | Fisher | |
| 25 | get my daughter, and there was wine. Emma was drinking | Fisher | |
| Home | Page 59 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | wine early in the morning, and I was very alarmed by | Fisher | |
| 2 | that because I thought this DUI would -- would | Fisher | |
| 3 | prompt some changes. | Fisher | |
| 4 | Q | When did you become aware that she had this | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | accident and that situation? | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | I became aware of that accident -- it took | Fisher |
| 7 | several days. | Fisher | |
| 8 | Q | And how did you find -- how did you find out? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | I took Emma out to dinner on Monday night so we | Fisher |
| 10 | could talk about it. | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | Was it the Monday following the accident? | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | It was the Monday following the accident. | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | Q .. Okay. So then after that you indicated you came | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | to the home sometime in the morning hours and saw her | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | drinking wine? | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 17 | Q | Were there any other incidences prior to the 27th | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | of December that gave you some concern? | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | A | You know, I had gotten a steady concern over -- | Fisher |
| 20 | it's roughly -- prior to the accident. I was on | Fisher | |
| 21 | vacation there. Could you clarify? | Fisher | |
| 22 | Q | I'm asking -- you described the accident that | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | occurred on, like, early December, and you describe an | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | incident with drinking wine. Was there any other | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | incidences or occurrence that gave you concerns prior to | Van Arsdel | |
| Home | Page 60 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | when you kept your daughter? | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | A | Oh, on the 27th is the day that I showed up to | Fisher |
| 3 | drop off my daughter, and her mother answered the door | Fisher | |
| 4 | in a bathrobe with no clothes on; and the bathrobe was | Fisher | |
| 5 | open. | Fisher | |
| 6 | Q | She didn't appear to be intoxicated at that time? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | MR. LUTH: I object to the question, your | Luth | |
| 8 | Honor. I don't know that there's any foundation for | Luth | |
| 9 | that. That requires a conclusion on this gentleman's | Luth | |
| 10 | part that I don't know if he's qualified to make. | Luth | |
| 11 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel, do you have a | Zitter | |
| 12 | response? | Zitter | |
| 13 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: It's a lay opinion. He can | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | answer. | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | THE COURT: In that case, objection is | Zitter | |
| 16 | sustained. Go ahead, please, Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 17 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | Q | So that morning when you indicated she answered | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | the door, thus you decided to keep your daughter? | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | I actually -- because I really tried to follow | Fisher |
| 21 | these court orders. And up until this point, I really | Fisher | |
| 22 | have been very, very clear about following court orders, | Fisher | |
| 23 | A | and I had an overwhelming -- I was driving to work, and | Fisher |
| 24 | I had an overwhelming sense that my daughter was just in | Fisher | |
| 25 | danger, that Emma's lifestyle was coming back, that the | Fisher | |
| Home | Page 61 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | drug use and alcohol was -- that everything was getting | Fisher | |
| 2 | worse. And I turned around, and I picked her up. | Fisher | |
| 3 | Q | What did you tell Emma when you picked her up, if | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | A | anything? | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | I told Emma that I didn't have to work, that I | Fisher |
| 6 | wasn't going to work that day. | Fisher | |
| 7 | Q | Did you go to work that day? | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | A | I did. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | And what did you do with Emma? | Van Arsdel |
| 10 | A | With Demetra? | Fisher |
| 11 | Q | Demetra -- excuse me. | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | I took Demetra to my mother t s. | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | Had you had an agreement with Emma about your | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | mother watching Demetra over the holiday from, like, | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | Christmas to New Year's? | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | A | Yes, I did. | Fisher |
| 17 | Q | What was that? | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | A | That my mother would watch Demetra for the | Fisher |
| 19 | holiday time frame because my sister's kids -- she was | Fisher | |
| 20 | going to be watching my sister's kids also. | Fisher | |
| 21 | Q | And you thought it good that they all be | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | together? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | Yeah, I really encourage our family to spend time | Fisher |
| 24 | together. I think it's beneficial to everyone. | Fisher | |
| 25 | Q | Nonetheless, during the time frame from | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 62 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | December 27 to January 11, you did violate the court | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | order. Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | A | There were incidents when I did violate the court | Fisher |
| 4 | order. | Fisher | |
| 5 | Q | How many days do you figure that that occurred? | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | A | Maybe three. | Fisher |
| 7 | Q | And during that time period from December 27 | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | through January 11, was there phone communications with | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | Emma? | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | A | We were in constant communication. | Fisher |
| 11 | Q | Meaning how frequently? | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | Emma would contact me almost every day. Some | Fisher |
| 13 | days, you know, a lot of times I contacted Emma to let | Fisher | |
| 14 | her know so that she wouldn't worry. | Fisher | |
| 15 | Q | What did you tell her? | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | A | I told her that Demetra was with my mom, which | Fisher |
| 17 | she already knew, but just to head her off from calling | Fisher | |
| 18 | my work and causing problems at work. | Fisher | |
| 19 | Q | Did she voice to you concerns about Demetra not | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | being with her during that time period? | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | A | Not at all. She just would ask "Where is she?" | Fisher |
| 22 | And I would -- it depends what days we're talking about. | ||
| 23 | There's two separate time frames here. There's time | Fisher | |
| 24 | frames when she was with my mother and time frames when | Fisher | |
| 25 | she wasn't. | Fisher | |
| Home | Page 63 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | Well, explain to me. What do you mean by that, | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | different time frames, different things? What do you | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | mean? | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | A | The -- she was with my mother because there was | Fisher |
| 5 | weather issues and there was a Christmas holiday. And | Fisher | |
| 6 | my mom's a teacher; and, therefore, she was home. So | Fisher | |
| 7 | there was a good portion of time she was with my mom. | Fisher | |
| 8 | The few days near the end of that time frame, I had | Fisher | |
| 9 | taken her to a baby-sitter. | Fisher | |
| 10 | Q | I guess, did you feel justified in doing what you | Van Arsdel |
| 11 | did, violating the court order? | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | A | Yeah, I did. I think there's a time when you -- | Fisher |
| 13 | if you sincerely feel the need to protect your child, | Fisher | |
| 14 | you need to protect your child. | Fisher | |
| 15 | Q | You and Emma are operating under a | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | shared-parenting plan? | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | A | Yes, we are. | Fisher |
| 18 | Q | And how's that working other than that time frame | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | that we just talked about? | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | In some degrees, it works okay. Emma just | Fisher |
| 21 | doesn't keep her word a lot, and so it really makes it | Fisher | |
| 22 | difficult to come to an agreement on things. | Fisher | |
| 23 | Q | What do you mean by that specifically or for | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | instance? | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | A | She'll -- you'll make an agreement for one day | Fisher |
| Home | Page 64 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | and another day, and she'll take her day and then renege | Fisher |
| 2 | you on the other day, on the switch. So I've learned to | Fisher | |
| 3 | A | always do my switches where I get the day first and then | Fisher |
| 4 | she'll get the day second and switch. | Fisher | |
| 5 | Q | How do you folks -- how is your ability to | Van Arsdel |
| 6 | communicate between you two parents? | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | A | We can talk as long as we talk about nothing. As | Fisher |
| 8 | soon as we start talking about something that would be | Fisher | |
| 9 | involved in raising a child, Emma either turns to walk | Fisher | |
| 10 | A | away or she'll rebuttal with bizarre questions that go | Fisher |
| 11 | allover the place. And you can never get any | Fisher | |
| 12 | information, and it just aggravates you. | Fisher | |
| 13 | Q | Do you feel that it's in the child's best | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | interest that this shared-parenting plan continue or | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | cease? | Van Arsdel | |
| 16 | A | I think the shared-parenting plan is a good idea | Fisher |
| 17 | for a child. I think in our particular situation, it | Fisher | |
| 18 | would be beneficial to Demetra to have one party stand | Fisher | |
| 19 | firm and the other party be a visitation party. | Fisher | |
| 20 | Q | And what do you think is in the child's best | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | interest as far as that stand-firm party and the | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | visiting party? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | I think I've shown over the past two years, two | Fisher |
| 24 | and a half years, that I'm very stable and reliable. | Fisher | |
| 25 | And I think that if I was custodial parent, I would be | Fisher | |
| Home | Page 65 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | fair and keep this thing on track. | Fisher | |
| 2 | Q | Would you follow the court order in spite of the | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | little riff that you had in December-January? | Van Arsdel | |
| 4 | A | It is my intention always to follow the court | Fisher |
| 5 | order out of both fear and respect for the courts. Yes, | Fisher | |
| 6 | is the answer. | Fisher | |
| 7 | Q | How does Demetra interact with you when you guys | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | A | are together? | Van Arsdel |
| 9 | A | Demetra is a daddy's girl. She's just -- and she | Fisher |
| 10 | loves me. We get along great. | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | How does she get along with the rest of your | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | family? | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | A | She is part of the family. She's no different | Fisher |
| 14 | than any other member of the family. She has a very | Fisher | |
| 15 | great relationship with my mother and with my little | Fisher | |
| 16 | sister -- actually with my entire family, but she has a | Fisher | |
| 17 | strong connection with my mother and my sister. | Fisher | |
| 18 | Q | Where do they live in proximity to you? | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | A | They live in Coldwater. | Fisher |
| 20 | Q | And that's about eight miles? | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | A | Yeah, it's, like, about a 15-minute drive. | Fisher |
| 22 | Q | And how often do you get together with those | Van Arsdel |
| 23 | members of your family? | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | A | Well, actually it's worked out very nice. I see | Fisher |
| 25 | them almost every other day, and we eat dinner together, | Fisher | |
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| 1 | so we have kind of that family dinner time together. | Fisher | |
| 2 | Q | And is Demetra present for this? | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | A | Yeah, she's an integral part of everything. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | Did you notice a change in her behavior following | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | this December-January separation from her mother? | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | A | I had believed that this shared parenting was a | Fisher |
| 7 | great idea in its concept. But when I had Demetra for | Fisher | |
| 8 | an extended period of time, I noticed that she was much | Fisher | |
| 9 | happier and much -- alert. She was much more alert, | Fisher | |
| 10 | much more awake, much more playful; and lots of people | Fisher | |
| 11 | actually came out and commented that to me without | Fisher | |
| 12 | me mentioning it. | Fisher | |
| 13 | Q | How has her behavior been since your | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | shared-parenting plan resumed in January? | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | We're back to the way it was. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | SO you see it as better when you had that | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | two weeks? | Van Arsdel | |
| 18 | A | Yeah, I think -- yeah, she was definitely | Fisher |
| 19 | different during that extended period of time, or if I | Fisher | |
| 20 | take a vacation for a week with her. | Fisher | |
| 21 | Q | What type of living quarters do you have at your | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | home? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | I have a two-bedroom apartment. | Fisher |
| 24 | Q | I assume one for you and one for Demetra? | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
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| 1 | Q | There are no other children that you have? | Van Arsdel |
| 2 | A | No. | Fisher |
| 3 | Q | What about other children in the neighborhood | Van Arsdel |
| 4 | where you live? | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | A | Not really. Nobody that -- | Fisher |
| 6 | Q | Nobody that you associate with? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | No. I chose that apartment specifically because | Fisher |
| 8 | there was older people on either side; and I really -- I | Fisher | |
| 9 | wanted a nice, calm -- we have a large backyard. I | Fisher | |
| 10 | wanted a very calm environment for my daughter. | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | Your health is good? | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | My health is good. | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | All right. Do you recall your income for 2004 -- | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | gross? | Van Arsdel | |
| 15 | A | It's around 30. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | 30,000 approximately? | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 18 | Q | You've had a -- I'll strike that question. | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | A | Are you willing to cooperate with counseling if | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | the court would order that? | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | A | Oh, of course I'd cooperate if the court ordered | Fisher |
| 22 | something, but we've done mediation. I don't know -- I | Fisher | |
| 23 | don't know where Emma and I are going to go from here. | Fisher | |
| 24 | We just don't agree on most things. | Fisher | |
| 25 | Q | As far as your stability that you were talking | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 68 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | about, how long have you lived at your address -- your | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | current address? | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | A | Oh, at least two years -- two years. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | And how long has Emma lived at her address? | Van Arsdel |
| 5 | A | I can't recall the day she moved, but it's less | Fisher |
| 6 | than a year. It would be six months. | Fisher | |
| 7 | Q | How long have you had the job that you're | Van Arsdel |
| 8 | holding? | Van Arsdel | |
| 9 | A | I've had this job for six months. I took a new | Fisher |
| 10 | job. | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | And how long did you have your job prior to that? | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | Strike that. I've had this job -- we're closing | Fisher |
| 13 | in on almost a year. | Fisher | |
| 14 | Q | Okay. You're in the computer business? | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | How long have you been in that? | Van Arsdel |
| 17 | A | I've been in computers professionally since 1995. | Fisher |
| 18 | Q | In a nutshell, it is your desire to have a sole | Van Arsdel |
| 19 | custody arrangement with visitation with Emma? | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | A | Yeah, it is -- I would like to have full custody. | Fisher |
| 21 | Q | And the visitation would be like -- you're | Van Arsdel |
| 22 | familiar with the standard rule of court. Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | A | I am. | Fisher |
| 24 | Q | Do you think that would be appropriate -- roughly | Van Arsdel |
| 25 | every other weekend? | Van Arsdel | |
| Home | Page 69 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | And there's a midweek day for three hours? | Van Arsdel |
| 3 | A | My purpose for desiring full custody is to | Fisher |
| 4 | stabilize this arrangement. I don't -- I could even see | Fisher | |
| 5 | more than the minimum. | Fisher | |
| 6 | Q | Do you think that will also be in DemetraÕs best | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | interest? | Van Arsdel | |
| 8 | A | I absolutely think it would be in Demetra's best | Fisher |
| 9 | interest. I'd like to interject, if I could. Could I | Fisher | |
| 10 | make a statement? | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | Sorry. | Van Arsdel |
| 12 | A | It's okay? | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | Q ¥ You can ask for a recess and confer with me to | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | A | ask you a question, but it has to be in response to a | Van Arsdel |
| 15 | Q | question. | Van Arsdel |
| 16 | A | No, I wanted to add to a question-that you asked | Fisher |
| 17 | previously. Nevermind. | Fisher | |
| 18 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: No further questions. | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 20 | THE COURT: All right. If you'll wait, | Zitter | |
| 21 | please, Mr. Fisher. Mr. Luth, do you have | Zitter | |
| 22 | cross-examination for this witness? | Zitter | |
| 23 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 24 | CROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 25 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| Home | Page 70 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | Q | Mr. Fisher, what was the date when you saw | Luth |
| 2 | Miss Hasenjager drinking wine in the morning? | Luth | |
| 3 | A | That date would be -- | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | I'd rather you didn't look at that. I'd rather | Luth |
| 5 | you'd tell me from your memory. | Luth | |
| 6 | A | The date was the day that we had a snow storm | Fisher |
| 7 | A | and-- | Fisher |
| 8 | Q | So you don't know the date? | Luth |
| 9 | A | -- and I didnÕt have to work. It was two days | Fisher |
| 10 | prior to the 27th, which would make it -- | Fisher | |
| 11 | Q | Christmas Day? You weren't at her home on | Luth |
| 12 | Christmas Day, were you? | Luth | |
| 13 | A | No, I wasn't. | Fisher |
| 14 | Q | No, I didn't think so. So you don't remember the | Luth |
| 15 | date. Right ? | Luth | |
| 16 | A | No, I don't. | Fisher |
| 17 | Q | This horrendous day that was so atrocious to you | Luth |
| 18 | that you went to work on that day, which certainly | Luth | |
| 19 | wasn't Christmas Day? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 21 | Q | You donÕt remember the day? | Luth |
| 22 | A | No. | Fisher |
| 23 | Q | Where were you at when you saw this going on? | Luth |
| 24 | A | The wine? | Fisher |
| 25 | Q | Where were you physically when you saw this? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | Are we referring to wine? | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | Yes. | Luth |
| 3 | A | I was at the top of the steps going upstairs. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | Okay. And where was the wine drinking? | Luth |
| 5 | A | There was -- Emma was holding a glass of wine. | Fisher |
| 6 | There was also a glass of wine on the table; and there | Fisher | |
| 7 | was a half empty, very large bottle of wine on the | Fisher | |
| 8 | table. | Fisher | |
| 9 | Q | So what color was the glass that she was holding? | Luth |
| 10 | What color was the substance in it? | Luth | |
| 11 | A | It was red. | Fisher |
| 12 | Q | Could have been grape juice, couldn't it? | Luth |
| 13 | A | Except for the jar said "wine." | Fisher |
| 14 | Q | The glass had a label on it? | Luth |
| 15 | A | The bottle on the table that was the same color | Fisher |
| 16 | A | as the substance in the glass had a label that was | Fisher |
| 17 | consistent with wine. | Fisher | |
| 18 | Q | But you didn't see her pour from that bottle, did | Luth |
| 19 | you? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | The color matched the color in the glass. | Fisher |
| 21 | Q | Sir, you didn't see her pour from the bottle -- | Luth |
| 22 | A | No, I didn't. | Fisher |
| 23 | Q | --- did you? So you really don't know what was in | Luth |
| 24 | that glass, do you? | Luth | |
| 25 | A | I think that I'm of reasonable intellect to be | Fisher |
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| 1 | A | able to connect two colored substances. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | SO you're basing it on the colors. Correct? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | You didn't taste it? | Luth |
| 5 | A | No. | Fisher |
| 6 | Q | Okay. So you really don't know what was in the | Luth |
| 7 | glass? | Luth | |
| 8 | A | I -- I suspect it was wine. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | You're assuming it was? | Luth |
| 10 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 11 | Q | You don't know, do you? | Luth |
| 12 | A | There was wine in the bottle on the table. | Fisher |
| 13 | Q | You don't know what was in the glass, do you, | Luth |
| 14 | sir? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | I can't say. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | That's what I thought. But we do know that you | Luth |
| 17 | kept your daughter away from her mother from December | Luth | |
| 18 | 27, 2004, until January 11,2005, didn't you? | Luth | |
| 19 | A | Part of that was pre-agreed on. | Fisher |
| 20 | Q | And there were several days that weren't, by your | Luth |
| 21 | own admission? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | There were a few days that weren't that's | Fisher |
| 23 | correct. | Fisher | |
| 24 | Q | And when the child did go back to her mother, you | Luth |
| 25 | didn't take her back, did you? | Luth | |
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| 1 | A | No, I didn't. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | No, the sheriff did? | Luth |
| 3 | A | A . That's correct. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | How many days of work did you take off between | Luth |
| 5 | Christmas and New Year's? | Luth | |
| 6 | A | Two. | Fisher |
| 7 | Q | Two? | Luth |
| 8 | A | Two days. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | What were those dates? | Luth |
| 10 | A | Friday, I get off -- any Friday that I have my | Fisher |
| 11 | daughter, I don't work. I have an arrangement with my | Fisher | |
| 12 | employer. And it was a day prior to Christmas. | Fisher | |
| 13 | Q | Do you know what days those were? What dates | Luth |
| 14 | were they? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | No, I'm not going to take a shot at that. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | Q: Okay. So the only residents at your home are you | Luth |
| 17 | A | and Demetra. Correct? | Luth |
| 18 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 19 | Q | And there aren't any other children in the | Luth |
| 20 | neighborhood? | Luth | |
| 21 | A | There are children in the neighborhood. | Fisher |
| 22 | Q | She doesn't play with them though? | Luth |
| 23 | A | No, I think she's kind of young to be out running | Fisher |
| 24 | A | around the neighborhood. | Fisher |
| 25 | Q | Isn't it true, Mr. Fisher, that there were days | Luth |
| Home | Page 74 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | during the end of -- from December 27 through | Luth | |
| 2 | January 11 -- that your daughter wasn't at your mother's | Luth | |
| 3 | A | and that she was at a baby-sitter's house? | Luth |
| 4 | A | That is true. | Fisher |
| 5 | Q | And you were at work? | Luth |
| 6 | A | That is true. | Fisher |
| 7 | Q | And you would not tell Emma where she was | Luth |
| 8 | being-- | Luth | |
| 9 | A | That is true. | Fisher |
| 10 | Q | -- kept. Correct? | Luth |
| 11 | A | That's correct. | Fisher |
| 12 | Q | You did that on at least three days -- | Luth |
| 13 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 14 | Q | -- by your calculation. Correct? | Luth |
| 15 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | And what days would those have been by your | Luth |
| 17 | calculation, sir? | Luth | |
| 18 | A | Those would be the days that she commonly has her | Fisher |
| 19 | near the end of that time span. | Fisher | |
| 20 | Q | Okay. It would have been -- it was basically a | Luth |
| 21 | two-week time span that began on the 27th 'of December on | Luth | |
| 22 | Monday and continued through January 11. So what you're | Luth | |
| 23 | saying it is, it would have been the first Monday in | Luth | |
| 24 | January? | Luth | |
| 25 | A | Yeah, the first Monday. | Fisher |
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| 1 | Q | That week -- | Luth |
| 2 | A | Because that was my weekend. That would be my | Fisher |
| 3 | weekend typically and then -- | Fisher | |
| 4 | Q | And the Monday -- | Luth |
| 5 | A | -- and the Monday that followed, yes. | Fisher |
| 6 | Q | And the Monday was her day, without question? | Luth |
| 7 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 8 | Q | As was the Tuesday, since you went to work? | Luth |
| 9 | A | A.' Correct. | Fisher |
| 10 | Q | As was the Wednesday, since it was her day? | Luth |
| 11 | A | These are first right -- Tuesday is first right | Fisher |
| 12 | of refusal. | Fisher | |
| 13 | Q | Right. And would have been her day then, | Luth |
| 14 | wouldn't it, since you went to work? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | It would have been a first right of refusal. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | Right. It would have been her day since you went | Luth |
| 17 | to work. Correct? First right- of refusal? | Luth | |
| 18 | A | It would have been first right of refusal -- | Fisher |
| 19 | Q | SO she -- | Luth |
| 20 | A | -- since I went to work. | Fisher |
| 21 | Q | The child should have been with her mother that | Luth |
| 22 | day but wasn't. Right? | Luth | |
| 23 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 24 | Q | Okay. And then that Wednesday was definitely | Luth |
| 25 | Emma's day? | Luth | |
| Home | Page 76 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | Didn't take her then either, did you? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Nope. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | That Thursday you went to work, and it would have | Luth |
| 5 | been Emma's first right of refusal, wasn't it? | Luth | |
| 6 | A | I believe by now this has ended, in my memory. | Fisher |
| 7 | Wednesday? | Fisher | |
| 8 | Q | Well, we're talking about January 3 through | Fisher |
| 9 | January 7. It wasn't over. January 6 was a Thursday. | Luth | |
| 10 | That was a first right of refusal date for her also, | Luth | |
| 11 | wasn't it? | Luth | |
| 12 | A | I'll consent to that. It seems like this time | Fisher |
| 13 | frame is getting -- | Fisher | |
| 14 | Q | So now we're up to -- | Luth |
| 15 | A | -- longer. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | No, it's not. Believe me. January 3 would have | Luth |
| 17 | been Emma's day. January 4 would have been her first | Luth | |
| 18 | right of refusal day. January 5 would have been a full | Luth | |
| 19 | day for her. And January 6, a Thursday, would have been | Luth | |
| 20 | a first right of refusal date for her. That's correct, | Luth | |
| 21 | isn't it? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | May I consult the calendar for visual purposes? | Fisher |
| 23 | Q | Please do. | Luth |
| 24 | A | Just so we don't -- Thursday, Friday, Saturday, | Fisher |
| 25 | Sunday would be my days -- 9, 10, 11, 12. Seven-'- | Fisher | |
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| 1 | Q | Well, let's look at that together. | Luth |
| 2 | A | Oh, I was looking at the beginning of the month. | Fisher |
| 3 | We're talking down here. | Fisher | |
| 4 | Q | You're looking at December. | Luth |
| 5 | A | Yeah. | Fisher |
| 6 | Q | And I'm talking about January. So let's look at | Luth |
| 7 | January together. | Luth | |
| 8 | A | There you go. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | Are you on the right page? | Luth |
| 10 | A | I've got it written on here. | Fisher |
| 11 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel, do you have | Zitter | |
| 12 | access to a calendar, also, in case it's needed? | Zitter | |
| 13 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Yeah, I got one. | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | THE COURT: Thank you. All right. | Zitter | |
| 15 | THE WITNESS: She was denied on Monday. | Luth | |
| 16 | THE COURT: Monday. Which date, please? | Zitter | |
| 17 | THE WITNESS: The 3rd. | Fisher | |
| 18 | THE COURT: Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 19 | Q | Let's not skip Tuesday, the 4th. That's a day | Luth |
| 20 | you went to work. Right? | Luth | |
| 21 | A | Yes. | Fisher |
| 22 | Q | And she wasn't permitted to see the child that | Luth |
| 23 | day either, was she? | Luth | |
| 24 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 25 | Q | And the 5th is her day? | Luth |
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| 1 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 2 | Q | And the 6th was her first right of refusal day? | Luth |
| 3 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | She didn't get to see them (sic) then either? | Luth |
| 5 | A | And then that comes to the conclusion. | Fisher |
| 6 | Q | Now, let I s look at Friday. Did you go to work on | Luth |
| 7 | the 7th? | Luth | |
| 8 | A | No, I did not. | Fisher |
| 9 | Q | Okay. And then the following Monday was the | Luth |
| 10 | 10th. That was her day? | Luth | |
| 11 | A | Correct. | Fisher |
| 12 | Q | And then on the 11th, at the end of the day, at | Luth |
| 13 | 3:45, the sheriff came and got her and took her to Emma. | Luth | |
| 14 | But you didn't take her there that day, did you? | Luth | |
| 15 | A | I took her to the sheriff. | Fisher |
| 16 | Q | I know, but you didn't take her to Emma's in the | Luth |
| 17 | morning when you went to work, did you? | Luth | |
| 18 | A | Oh, correct. | Fisher |
| 19 | Q | Okay. So let's count those days just in January. | Luth |
| 20 | We got beginning the 3rd -- one, two, three, four for | Luth | |
| 21 | the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th. Okay? | Luth | |
| 22 | A | Uh-huh. | Fisher |
| 23 | Q | There's four days. And there's two days the | Luth |
| 24 | following week. So now we're up to six, aren't we? | Luth | |
| 25 | A | We are up to three days that were her days. We | Fisher |
| Home | Page 79 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | are up to three days that were first right of refusal. | Fisher | |
| 2 | Q | So altogether that's six, isn't it? | Luth |
| 3 | A | If that's the question, then, yeah. | Fisher |
| 4 | Q | Well, the parenting plan provides that you take | Luth |
| 5 | her to Emma's on the days that you have to work, and | Luth | |
| 6 | there are three days there when you went to work and | Luth | |
| 7 | didn't take her to Emma's, correct, that we just | Luth | |
| 8 | discussed? | Luth | |
| 9 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Your Honor, I think it's | Van Arsdel | |
| 10 | been asked and answered. I think he said yes. Maybe | Van Arsdel | |
| 11 | they aren't understanding the same terms, but I think | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | that he said yes. | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | THE COURT: Yes, I think we've got it | Van Arsdel | |
| 14 | A | answered. Asked and answered. Please continue, | Zitter |
| 15 | Mr. Luth, if you have further cross-examination. | Zitter | |
| 16 | MR. LUTH: I have nothing further at this | Luth | |
| 17 | time, your Honor. Thank you. | Luth | |
| 18 | THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Any redirect, | Zitter | |
| 19 | Mr. Van Arsdel? | Zitter | |
| 20 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: No questions, your Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | THE COURT: All right. You may step down, | Zitter | |
| 23 | please, Mr. Fisher. Do you have any other witnesses, | Zitter | |
| 24 | Mr. Van Arsdel? | Zitter | |
| 25 | (Off record conversation.) | ||
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| 1 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: No further witnesses, your | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | Honor. We rest. Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 3 | THE COURT: All right. | Zitter | |
| 4 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Well, we have an exhibit. | Van Arsdel | |
| 5 | It's just the standard court rule, which the court may | Van Arsdel | |
| 6 | take judicial notice of or admit. | Van Arsdel | |
| 7 | THE COURT: Mr. Van Arsdel -- excuse me -- | Zitter | |
| 8 | Mr. Luth, do you have any objection? | Zitter | |
| 9 | MR. LUTH: No, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 10 | THE COURT: All right. It will be admitted. | Zitter | |
| 11 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 12 | THE COURT: The court will take this matter | Zitter | |
| 13 | under advisement. | Zitter | |
| 14 | MR. LUTH: Your Honor, I would have a | Luth | |
| 15 | rebuttal, a brief rebuttal witness. | Luth | |
| 16 | THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. | Zitter | |
| 17 | MR. LUTH: If you don't mind, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 18 | THE COURT: No, not at all. It will be | Zitter | |
| 19 | short? | Zitter | |
| 20 | MR. LUTH: It will be short. | Luth | |
| 21 | THE COURT: All right. Then please go | Zitter | |
| 22 | A | ahead. | Zitter |
| 23 | MR. LUTH: We'd call Emma Hasenjager back to | Luth | |
| 24 | the stand. | Luth | |
| 25 | THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Hasenjager. | Zitter | |
| Home | Page 81 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | (Emma Hasenjager resumed the witness stand.) | ||
| 2 | THE COURT: Miss Hasenjager, you are still | Zitter | |
| 3 | under oath. All right? | Zitter | |
| 4 | THE WITNESS: Yes. | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | THE COURT: Mr. Luth. | Zitter | |
| 6 | MR. LUTH: Thank you, your Honor. | Luth | |
| 7 | DIRECT EXAMINATION | ||
| 8 | BY MR. LUTH: | ||
| 9 | Q | Emma, you heard Mr. Fisher testify that you were | Luth |
| 10 | present when he brought Demetra to your home Qn a given | Luth | |
| 11 | morning? | Luth | |
| 12 | A | Yes. | Van Arsdel |
| 13 | Q | Was there ever a morning that you were required | Luth |
| 14 | to be there when Demetra was coming that you were not | Luth | |
| 15 | there? Was there ever a morning when you were not | Luth | |
| 16 | present when you were supposed to be? | Luth | |
| 17 | A | No. | Van Arsdel |
| 18 | Q | All right. Did you ever come to the door with no | Luth |
| 19 | clothes on to greet your daughter or her father? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | I did on Monday, the 27th. I had taken a bath | Van Arsdel |
| 21 | before that and went to bed. And when I heard the | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | doorbell ring, instead of taking time to dress myself, I | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | took my comforter that I keep on my bed and wrapped it | Van Arsdel | |
| 24 | around me to go down and answer the door. | Van Arsdel | |
| 25 | Q | All right. And did it cover your body at that | Luth |
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| 1 | point? | Luth | |
| 2 | A | It's a full-size comforter, so I would hope that | Hasenjager |
| 3 | it would have. I expected it, you know, to just let her | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | in the door. I didn't feel that in my own home behind | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | the door to let her in should have caused conflict. He | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | was attempting to make conversation with me at that | Hasenjager | |
| 7 | point however. | Hasenjager | |
| 8 | Q | Again, was it covering your body? | Luth |
| 9 | A | Yes, as far as I could tell. I felt covered. | Hasenjager |
| 10 | Q | Do you drink wine in the morning? | Luth |
| 11 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 12 | Q | Have you ever drank wine in the morning from, | Luth |
| 13 | say, December 27 through this date? | Luth | |
| 14 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 15 | Q | Could Mr. Fisher have seen a wine glass on your | Luth |
| 16 | table in the morning? | Luth | |
| 17 | A | Possibly . | Hasenjager |
| 18 | Q | Is that in keeping with your prior testimony that | Luth |
| 19 | sometimes you have a glass of wine before bed? | Luth | |
| 20 | A | Correct. | Hasenjager |
| 21 | Q | Have you ever greeted him with wine -- a wine | Luth |
| 22 | glass in your hand? | Luth | |
| 23 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 24 | Q | Mr. Fisher indicated that there were instances | Luth |
| 25 | where you had not kept your word on modification of the | Luth | |
| Home | Page 83 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | parenting schedule. Is that true? | Luth | |
| 2 | A | Not to my knowledge. | Hasenjager |
| 3 | Q | Have you intentionally gone back on an agreed | Luth |
| 4 | change? | Luth | |
| 5 | A | No. | Hasenjager |
| 6 | Q | He didn't offer any specific instances. Do you | Luth |
| 7 | know what he's talking about at all? | Luth | |
| 8 | A | I couldn't be certain. | Hasenjager |
| 9 | Q | Obviously you've testified that your daughter, | Luth |
| 10 | Demetra, gets along well with you and her sister. How | Luth | |
| 11 | does she get along with your extended family? | Luth | |
| 12 | A | Well. | Hasenjager |
| 13 | MR. LUTH: I have nothing further, your | Luth | |
| 14 | Honor. Thank you. | Luth | |
| 15 | THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Van Arsdel. | Zitter | |
| 16 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Thank you, your Honor. | Van Arsdel | |
| 17 | CROSS-EXAMINATION | ||
| 18 | BY MR. VANARSDEL: | ||
| 19 | Q | You just testified you have been there when | Van Arsdel |
| 20 | you're supposed to be in the mornings for your daughter. | Van Arsdel | |
| 21 | Correct? | Van Arsdel | |
| 22 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 23 | Q | Every time? | Van Arsdel |
| 24 | A | Yes. | Hasenjager |
| 25 | Q | The one morning after the accident, you just | Van Arsdel |
| Home | Page 84 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | couldn't shake it out of bed or -- | Van Arsdel | |
| 2 | A | I did not hear him at the door. My phone was not | Hasenjager |
| 3 | in my bedroom, so I did not hear it. It was on silence | Hasenjager | |
| 4 | in the other room. So, no, I missed the phone calls and | Hasenjager | |
| 5 | I did not hear him at the door. | Hasenjager | |
| 6 | Q | What time did you get up that day? | Van Arsdel |
| 7 | A | Maybe 8:30, 9 0'clock. My mom then came over, | Hasenjager |
| 8 | A | and my mother has a key to my apartment. And as was | Hasenjager |
| 9 | mentioned, the key was still in my door. So my mom | Hasenjager | |
| 10 | brought me the key and let herself in because Paul had | Hasenjager | |
| 11 | called her at work. | Hasenjager | |
| 12 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: Okay. No further | Van Arsdel | |
| 13 | Q | questions. Thank you. | Van Arsdel |
| 14 | THE COURT: All right. You may step down. | Zitter | |
| 15 | THE WITNESS: Thank you. | Hasenjager | |
| 16 | MR. LUTH: I have no further rebuttal, your | Luth | |
| 17 | Honor. Thank you very much. | Luth | |
| 18 | THE COURT: All right. Mr. Van Arsdel, do | Zitter | |
| 19 | you have rebuttal? | Zitter | |
| 20 | (No audible response.) | ||
| 21 | THE COURT: I'm sorry? No? | Zitter | |
| 22 | MR. VAN ARSDEL: No, your Honor. Thank you. | Van Arsdel | |
| 23 | THE COURT: Thank you. The court will take | Zitter | |
| 24 | this under advisement. You may adjourn. | Zitter | |
| 25 | (Court was adjourned.) | ||
| Home | Page 85 | FisherCase.com | |
| 1 | STATE OF OHIO, | ||
| S: CERTIFICATE | |||
| 2 | COUNTY OF MERCER: | ||
| 3 | I, Joyce C. Dues, Official Court Reporter for the | ||
| 4 | Mercer County Common Pleas Court, duly appointed | ||
| 5 | therein, do hereby certify that the foregoing 84 pages | ||
| 6 | constitutes, to the best of my ability, a true and | ||
| 7 | accurate transcript as transcribed by me using the | ||
| 8 | audiotapes of the proceedings conducted in the Juvenile | ||
| 9 | Division of the Mercer County Common Pleas Court on the | ||
| 10 | 21st day of March, 2005, before the Honorable Mary Pat | ||
| 11 | Zit ter, Judge of said court. | ||
| 12 | Subscribed this day of May, 2005. | ||
| 13 | |||
| 14 | COPY | ||
| 15 | Joyce C Dues~-RPR------------ | ||
| 16 | ficial Court Reporter | ||
| 16 | My commission expires 02/09/10 | ||
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| Home | Page 86 | FisherCase.com | |
| 86 | |||
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| . | |||
| 1 | STATE OF OHIO, | ||
| S : CERTIFICATE | |||
| 2 | COUNTY OF MERCER: | ||
| 3 | I, Mary Pat Zitter, Judge of the Juvenile | ||
| 4 | Division of the Mercer County Common Pleas Court, do | ||
| 5 | hereby certify that the foregoing transcript of the | ||
| 6 | hearing held on March 21, 2005, consisting of 84 pages, | ||
| 7 | as prepared by Joyce C. Dues, is a true, complete | ||
| 8 | transcript of the proceedings, and I do further certify | ||
| 9 | that I was personally present in the courtroom during | ||
| 10 | all of said proceedings~ | ||
| 11 | Subscribed this day of May, 2005. | ||
| 12 | |||
| 13 | COPY | ||
| 14 | Mary Pat Zitter, Judge | ||
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